Don't worry, haven't forgot about you Syn. 🙂
Originally posted by SyndicateHe wasn't taking his opponent seriously. As he says "I've always been greater than you!" - last time Grievous underestimated his enemies he got beat by Gungans. Go figure.
Jobbing's an excuse that means nothing to me. There's nothing to suggest it. Granted it was on a nexus.
And its reflected in his technique, its sloppy and half-assed. He flails at Ventress and then she defeats him by exploiting the glaring flaws in his technique. Not suggesting Ventress couldn't necessarily defeat Grievous, but it would have been much more of a contest if he'd given 100%.
I'd contest that given Vader seemed to ignore her after he thought she'd been dealt with. His main focus was getting the Sith artifact.Right... Two points here.
1. Vader was intent on killing Ahsoka, Filoni makes clear he was extremely driven in this regard.
2. Ahsoka was between him and the Sith artifact, as long as she was around, he couldn't get at it, so defeating her as quickly as possible was a priority.
There is zero reason to assume Vader wasn't giving his all, as not doing so would only undermine both those objectives.
Not contesting that as it's true. She's on par with CM's by that point though given her performances and is a bit above them by her prime.A bit above them, sure, but Ahsoka is well above that level at this point.
I'd say Anakin and Obi Wan are a greater threat then Vader. Granted Ahsoka did last longer but from what I saw Vader wasn't giving her his full attention.He was and they may be, but again Ahsoka lasted much longer.
She was being driven back in a 1v1 yes though we don't know how long she could have lasted had he chosen to not employ his force powers.She was rapidly driven back from the beginning and after a few seconds resorted to evasion, with Dooku easily deflecting all of her attacks, so evidently not long at all, and to assume otherwise is entirely baseless.
There's also the fact that she had been going back and forth with him a while before that and had just been choked by Savage, granted Dooku had been as well but he has techniques to wash away his wearieness while Ventress's stamina by this point is going to be suffering.We can make excuses for why she was so easily bested, but she was still bested, so it hardly proves anything regarding her skill.
Again, I'd disagree here. Causing avalanches, causing stalagmites to collapse, causing an explosion with her force blast and just generally being able to employ telekinesis that pushes back foes like Kenobi and Anakin is perhaps more impressive then Ahsoka's own feat.How? Fact is Ahsoka has used her TK to greater effect against more powerful foes, so it stands to reason none of those other TK showings are beyond her.
I'm talking about her curved hilt which is noted to give more options to the wielder in the DT trilogy.OK, but I doubt that will make much of a difference.
Well. Ahsoka herself, Kanan, Karbin and Luke. Pretty much all the lightsaber wielding opponents he's faced so far actually.On what basis was his performance against Ahsoka inconsistent?
Hardly needed to ragdoll Kanan when he could throw him around with his hands.
He pulled a statue on top of Karbin.
He disarmed Luke in their first fight, and telekinetically bombarded him in the second.
Maul is aged and noted as being weaker then his former self. While I'm sure he's grown in knowledge and perhaps even power I'd say it's pretty likely that his skills and physicals have diminished if not greatly by a good amount.All I see here is conjecture, but I'll give you the opportunity to substantiate this with some form of evidence.
Considering Ventress has contended with Grievous's strength I wouldn't say thatWhat strength feats does Grievous have that compare to Vader?
considering that Ventress has kept up with and beaten the opponents I mentioned I wouldn't say Ahsoka has greater greater speed either.She failed to keep up with Dooku or Mace, the caliber of opponent Ahsoka was up against. She also struggled to keep up with Savage.
Granted she could briefly keep up with Anakin and Kenobi but I'd hardly say that makes her able to keep pace with Darth Vader (let alone move faster than him). Who could deflect omni-directional laser fire, emerged unscathed from fighting a horde of lyleks and himself kept pace with Darth Sidious.
Finally in regards to stamina she has held her own against Savage and Maul along with Kenobi for a little over two and half minutes. She's never shown to have problems with her stamina either so I don't really see how it's relevant.Its not a question of having problems with stamina, its a question of having less of it. Neither Savage nor Maul being as taxing opponents as Vader. And of course, she admitted inferiority and fled.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Don't worry, haven't forgot about you Syn. 🙂He wasn't taking his opponent seriously. As he says "I've always been greater than you!" - last time Grievous underestimated his enemies he got beat by Gungans. Go figure.And its reflected in his technique, its sloppy and half-assed. He flails at Ventress and then she defeats him by exploiting the glaring flaws in his technique. Not suggesting Ventress couldn't necessarily defeat Grievous, but it would have been much more of a contest if he'd given 100%.Right... Two points here.
1. Vader was intent on killing Ahsoka, Filoni makes clear he was extremely driven in this regard.
2. Ahsoka was between him and the Sith artifact, as long as she was around, he couldn't get at it, so defeating her as quickly as possible was a priority.There is zero reason to assume Vader wasn't giving his all, as not doing so would only undermine both those objectives.A bit above them, sure, but Ahsoka is well above that level at this point.He was and they may be, but again Ahsoka lasted much longer.She was rapidly driven back from the beginning and after a few seconds resorted to evasion, with Dooku easily deflecting all of her attacks, so evidently not long at all, and to assume otherwise is entirely baseless.We can make excuses for why she was so easily bested, but she was still bested, so it hardly proves anything regarding her skill.How? Fact is Ahsoka has used her TK to greater effect against more powerful foes, so it stands to reason none of those other TK showings are beyond her.OK, but I doubt that will make much of a difference.On what basis was his performance against Ahsoka inconsistent?
Hardly needed to ragdoll Kanan when he could throw him around with his hands.
He pulled a statue on top of Karbin.
He disarmed Luke in their first fight, and telekinetically bombarded him in the second.All I see here is conjecture, but I'll give you the opportunity to substantiate this with some form of evidence.What strength feats does Grievous have that compare to Vader?She failed to keep up with Dooku or Mace, the caliber of opponent Ahsoka was up against. She also struggled to keep up with Savage.
Granted she could briefly keep up with Anakin and Kenobi but I'd hardly say that makes her able to keep pace with Darth Vader (let alone move faster than him). Who could deflect omni-directional laser fire, emerged unscathed from fighting a horde of lyleks and himself kept pace with Darth Sidious.Its not a question of having problems with stamina, its a question of having less of it. Neither Savage nor Maul being as taxing opponents as Vader. And of course, she admitted inferiority and fled.
"I've always been greater then you." Could have simply been a taunt or a confident statement. It doesn't mean Grievous was underestimating his opponent. I'm not one to analyze the choreography of a scene and make assumptions based on said choreography. Neither you or I know whether Greivous was going all out, personally I think Grievous expected to win but wouldn't have been holding back or taking it easy as he knew how formidable of an opponent Ventress was and likely was informed by Dooku that the planet would only further empower her.
May I get the quotes for that?
Granted but the Sith superweapon powering up right over his head might have been in his thoughts while he was fighting her along with what his master might do to him if he failed to stop it before it fell under the control of their enemies. Until I get that quote I'm not convinced that the Sith holocron he'd been sent to retrieve wasn't his primary objective.
That's debatable. I feel like a CM like Fisto or Plo Koon would be able to replicate Ahsoka's performance against Vader.
Need the quote. They are imo. Granted she did last longer.
Given her other performances I don't believe it's baseless. Also she was making use of the narrow corridors and trying to gain leverage against Dooku by jumping from wall to wall. It was ultimately unsuccessful but I personally feel she could have lasted a good while against him had it been a duel restricted to lightsabers and lightsabers only.
True enough. I shouldn't have brought it up as there are other showings of her skill that are more easily defined.
More powerful foes or more powerful foe? 😛
Ripping out a durasteel console from the floor of his ship for one.
That's not through speed though that's through skill... Also she did fine against Savage, what do you mean?
Eh? I think this is where getting into the fundamental differences between us. I see no reason why Ventress couldn't keep up with Vader or Maul with Dooku or Obi Wan with Vader or any one of those combinations. They're all around par as far as I'm concerned.
Again, I think this is a fundamental difference then you or I. Stamina and speed doesn't usually enter into the equation with all of these opponents who can generally challenge eachother and who seem to be on par in regards to combat speed or how long they've lasted. Also I find the assertion that Maul wouldn't be as taxing as an opponent as Vader to be in question personally. She seemed to handle herself fine against both of them. Granted she and Kenobi as a team were not on par with Savage and Maul.
I would appreciate it if you responded to my points directly, I'm finding it difficult to work out what you're referring to. 😬
Originally posted by Syndicate>Says he doesn't analyse choreography.
"I've always been greater then you." Could have simply been a taunt or a confident statement. It doesn't mean Grievous was underestimating his opponent. I'm not one to analyze the choreography of a scene and make assumptions based on said choreography. Neither you or I know whether Greivous was going all out, personally I think Grievous expected to win but wouldn't have been holding back or taking it easy as he knew how formidable of an opponent Ventress was and likely was informed by Dooku that the planet would only further empower her.
Lmao.
Anyway it's not rocket science. 🙂
Fact is he demonstates none of the technical proficiency of effective use of his anatomy that he does here for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx2bP5xv2jo&t=1m45s
Or here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-t9GlT9qmk&t=0m13s
His taunt suggesting the reason is overconfidence.
May I get the quotes for that?We both agreed that the one thing that Ahsoka can't represent in any way is any path of redemption for Vader, or the hope that that's there because Luke is the only one that's going to be able to make that happen. And that's the story that we see. It was our belief that we could have this moment, but it's not even a moment of hesitation for Vader. He is going to destroy her, and the reason that is, is that she has knowledge of him as a good person. She represents and is a vessel for everything that he once was, and he finds such pain in that, and hatred, and anger. He doesn't want to face what he's become, but he just wants to destroy anything that reminds him of that former self.
Granted but the Sith superweapon powering up right over his head might have been in his thoughts while he was fighting her along with what his master might do to him if he failed to stop it before it fell under the control of their enemies. Until I get that quote I'm not convinced that the Sith holocron he'd been sent to retrieve wasn't his primary objective.Right, and in order to retrieve the holocron he had to defeat Ahsoka, making at that moment, by association, defeating or otherwise incapacitating Ahsoka his primary objective. Clear?
That's debatable. I feel like a CM like Fisto or Plo Koon would be able to replicate Ahsoka's performance against Vader.Nah. They are skilled but they are not even TPM Maul level. Whom Ahsoka is firmly above.
Need the quote. They are imo. Granted she did last longer.Right. Hence why she wins here.
Given her other performances I don't believe it's baseless. Also she was making use of the narrow corridors and trying to gain leverage against Dooku by jumping from wall to wall. It was ultimately unsuccessful but I personally feel she could have lasted a good while against him had it been a duel restricted to lightsabers and lightsabers only.I see your point regarding leverage, but you are still entirely overlooking the fact Dooku was rapidly driving her back from the onset, at no point does she hold her ground and her (failed) attempt to use the environment to can an advantage only further illustrates her desperate position.
She was certainly driven back far more quickly than Ahsoka was by Vader, despite Vader being a much more aggressive duelist.
More powerful foes or more powerful foe? 😛To greater effect, and against a more powerful foe, my bad.
Ripping out a durasteel console from the floor of his ship for one.In a combat situation.
That's not through speed though that's through skill... Also she did fine against Savage, what do you mean?They are not mutually exclusive. And she didn't do particularly well against Savage considering he outflanked and disarmed her.
Eh? I think this is where getting into the fundamental differences between us. I see no reason why Ventress couldn't keep up with Vader or Maul with Dooku or Obi Wan with Vader or any one of those combinations. They're all around par as far as I'm concerned.What has Maul or Kenobi got to do with this?
And its not a case of just keeping pace with him, Ahsoka was initially faster than Vader.
Again, I think this is a fundamental difference then you or I. Stamina and speed doesn't usually enter into the equation with all of these opponents who can generally challenge eachother and who seem to be on par in regards to combat speed or how long they've lasted. Also I find the assertion that Maul wouldn't be as taxing as an opponent as Vader to be in question personally. She seemed to handle herself fine against both of them. Granted she and Kenobi as a team were not on par with Savage and Maul.I'm not sure who you are equating with who but I'm still not seeing any proof Ventress can match let alone surpass Vader's speed.
And Vader is more taxing an opponent because his attacks are far stronger and therefore require more energy to deflect. He's significantly more powerful than Maul, hence why Maul admits he's no match for him.
EDIT: Also you gonna substantiate your claims regarding Maul? And I assume you are conceding that Vader exerts his telekinetic advantage more often than not?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I would appreciate it if you responded to my points directly, I'm finding it difficult to work out what you're referring to. 😬>Says he doesn't analyse choreography.
>Analyses the choreography of Dooku vs Ventress.Lmao.
Anyway it's not rocket science. 🙂
Fact is he demonstates none of the technical proficiency of effective use of his anatomy that he does here for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx2bP5xv2jo&t=1m45s
Or here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-t9GlT9qmk&t=0m13s
His taunt suggesting the reason is overconfidence.We both agreed that the one thing that Ahsoka can't represent in any way is any path of redemption for Vader, or the hope that that's there because Luke is the only one that's going to be able to make that happen. And that's the story that we see. It was our belief that we could have this moment, but it's not even a moment of hesitation for Vader. He is going to destroy her, and the reason that is, is that she has knowledge of him as a good person. She represents and is a vessel for everything that he once was, and he finds such pain in that, and hatred, and anger. He doesn't want to face what he's become, but he just wants to destroy anything that reminds him of that former self.
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2016/03/31/star-wars-rebels-dave-filoni-on-ahsokas-fate-mauls-return-and-much-more?page=2Right, and in order to retrieve the holocron he had to defeat Ahsoka, making at that moment, by association, defeating or otherwise incapacitating Ahsoka his primary objective. Clear?
Nah. They are skilled but they are not even TPM Maul level. Whom Ahsoka is firmly above.Right. Hence why she wins here.I see your point regarding leverage, but you are still entirely overlooking the fact Dooku was rapidly driving her back from the onset, at no point does she hold her ground and her (failed) attempt to use the environment to can an advantage only further illustrates her desperate position.She was certainly driven back far more quickly than Ahsoka was by Vader, despite Vader being a much more aggressive duelist.To greater effect, and against a more powerful foe, my bad.In a combat situation.They are not mutually exclusive. And she didn't do particularly well against Savage considering he outflanked and disarmed her.What has Maul or Kenobi got to do with this?
And its not a case of just keeping pace with him, Ahsoka was initially faster than Vader.I'm not sure who you are equating with who but I'm still not seeing any proof Ventress can match let alone surpass Vader's speed.
And Vader is more taxing an opponent because his attacks are far stronger and therefore require more energy to deflect. He's significantly more powerful than Maul, hence why Maul admits he's no match for him.
EDIT: Also you gonna substantiate your claims regarding Maul? And I assume you are conceding that Vader exerts his telekinetic advantage more often than not?
I don't know how to thread my responses through the quote.
That was a bit hypocritical wasn't it? Alright then I concede the point about Ventress's fight with Dooku. There's no way for us to tell if she could have continued the fight for a longer period then she did, though it's my personal opinion she was capable of doing so based on her other performances. I don't feel comfortable with analyzing choreography when we have very little if any knowledge about sword fighting and remain unaware of the the creator's limitations in regards to animation or their intent. There's also the fact that Grievous is generally portrayed in that manner in TCW.
Or he simply thought the best stratagem to use against Ventress was an overwhelming offensive.
He may WANT to destroy her but based on Vader's past actions he's going to be focusing on carrying out Sidious's orders above everything else.
He had to incapacitate or get rid of Ahsoka long enough for him to get the holocron actually. Defeating her would have also worked but not if it hindered his primary objective. This is evidenced by Vader not even noting Ahsoka's fall before going to retrieve the holocron. He and Ahsoka have fallen far greater distances before that and we even see Ahsoka fall around that distance near the beginning of the episode and simply cushion her fall. If Vader's main goal was to defeat her he would have followed her down and finished the job.
Imo they are on or around TPM Maul level. Ahsoka is not firmly above TPM Maul level. I don't even know if I rank her on par with him.
Wait what? She lasted longer given the circumstances. While we don't know if Ventress could have or could not have lasted longer in her fight against Dooku had he not used the Force that doesn't really matter considering the relative parity of their other performances, with the addition of Savage Ahsoka has no chance.
Because Vader is not as agile as Dooku and Ahsoka's own form ( Ataru ) is itself aggressive.
Let's be real here. She landed a force push on him, the fight continued. It's pretty much the equivalent of what Kas'im did to Bane in PoD. While impressive it isn't a feat of tactical brilliance or astonishing power. It shows she's somewhat comparable and that she can employ TK in combat. It's fine and all but I don't see how any of these feats are on par with those I mentioned for Ventress.
Yes, and? Why would being in a combat situation increase Grievous's strength?
It doesn't really matter considering this was before her prime anyways. I guess you could be right but nothing really notes his speed advantage over her just that he defeated her in a hard fought battle using all his skill. And outflanked? She employed a downward chop and Savage dodged at the last second palming the blade out of her hand. She then goes on to show incredible skill in H2H combat against the physical tank that is Savage Oppress. It gets even better once you note that she was fighting with a single saber when in almost all of her fights she's fought with two meaning she was not fighting at her peak capabilities. Even still she managed to hold her own against Maul and Savage.
The fact that she's shown herself to be capable of fighting with them and not being outpaced. Ahsoka was faster then Vader? More nimble/agile maybe but I doubt she was faster.
She's matched Obi Wan in speed. She's matched Anakin in speed. Imo she matched Mace and Dooku in speed and was simply outskilled. None of these opponents are slower then canon Vader.
Maul in an atrophied state said that. I'm talking about Maul in his prime. And I could argue Maul is a more taxing opponent because he's more agile and comparable physically and thus is more aggressive and offensive lightsaber duelist. Vader can press a measured powerful offensive while Maul can press a broad sweeping and comparably powerful offensive. It's the difference between taking a hammer blow and defending against a rapier's many strikes.
Also my apologies I don't know how I missed your post regarding Vader's TK.
Pulling a statue on top of Karbin is effecting his environment not the opponent itself.
Are you talking about something from the comics in regards to Luke?
Is this actually a debate? The team creams her. Non-prime versions of these two would have routed Dooku if he didn't have Force lightning, which Ahsoka doesn't have. She's honestly better than either unless Rebels!Maul took a drastic dip since TCW, but combined they are too much and individually either one would give her issues.
Originally posted by ILSYeah I didn't really think she could win, just interested to see how well she would fare.
Is this actually a debate? The team creams her. Non-prime versions of these two would have routed Dooku if he didn't have Force lightning, which Ahsoka doesn't have. She's honestly better than either unless Rebels!Maul took a drastic dip since TCW, but combined they are too much and individually either one would give her issues.
Originally posted by ILS
Possibly, but it'd be by much slimmer margins. Ventress and Savage aren't far off of TCW Maul barring stylistic edges and what not.
and I'd say Ahsoka's fight with Vader alone puts her above either of them, regardless of her fight with Maul.
Originally posted by SyndicateNo... I'm saying it makes sense for Dooku to whip Ventress, and Maul to whip Savage, and in contrast it makes sense for Ventress to last against Maul and Savage to last against Dooku.
Are you trying to imply Makashi has a form advantage over Juyo? 0-o
Dooku is everything Ventress is but better, same with Maul to Savage. Flip the tables, Ventress' better refinery and agility lets her evade a total ass-whooping and Savage's strength and aggression is enough to pose Dooku real issues.
Originally posted by SyndicateYou wrap the text in [quote ][b ] [ /b][ /quote] or highlight it and press the "Quote" button.
I don't know how to thread my responses through the quote.
That was a bit hypocritical wasn't it? Alright then I concede the point about Ventress's fight with Dooku. There's no way for us to tell if she could have continued the fight for a longer period then she did, though it's my personal opinion she was capable of doing so based on her other performances. I don't feel comfortable with analyzing choreography when we have very little if any knowledge about sword fighting and remain unaware of the the creator's limitations in regards to animation or their intent.Good. 🙂
There's also the fact that Grievous is generally portrayed in that manner in TCW.Well the point I was trying to make is he actually isn't.
Or he simply thought the best stratagem to use against Ventress was an overwhelming offensive.Perhaps, but it wasn't very effective.
He may WANT to destroy her but based on Vader's past actions he's going to be focusing on carrying out Sidious's orders above everything else.:facepalm:He had to incapacitate or get rid of Ahsoka long enough for him to get the holocron actually. Defeating her would have also worked but not if it hindered his primary objective.
You are seriously not understanding the point.
Let me provide an analogy. Assuming you are trying to get into a burn building to save someone, but you have to knock down the door to get in.
Is your primary objective knocking down the door? No. It's saving the person. Would you bother knocking down the whole door if you managed to create sufficient enough an opening to get through? No, saving the person takes priority.
Are you nonetheless, going to put every ounce of your strength into knocking down that door? Of course you are. The faster you knock down the door or at least create an opening, the faster you can save the person.
Ahsoka is that door. She is an obstacle, standing in the way of Vader and his objective, the faster he removes that obstacle, be it by defeating, incapacitating otherwise getting rid of her, the faster he can get to the holocron. Not applying "all his skill" therefore would only work to his disadvantage.
Its no different from Windu using all his abilities to drive away Ventress, despite it not being his primary objective.
This is evidenced by Vader not even noting Ahsoka's fall before going to retrieve the holocron. He and Ahsoka have fallen far greater distances before that and we even see Ahsoka fall around that distance near the beginning of the episode and simply cushion her fall. If Vader's main goal was to defeat her he would have followed her down and finished the job.Actually, he explicitly notes her fall.
Imo they are on or around TPM Maul level. Ahsoka is not firmly above TPM Maul level. I don't even know if I rank her on par with him.Nah, TPM Maul is described as eclipsing the abilities of Qui-Gon, whose accolades as one of the greatest swordsbeings in the Order is just as good as any one CM member. Maul's on another level.
And clearly she is, seeing as she contended with a better version of Maul as an equal.
Wait what? She lasted longer given the circumstances.No she didn't, they defeated her in 30 seconds twice over, Ahsoka lasted more than three times as long against Vader.
Something you just admitted, not sure why you're backtracking now.
While we don't know if Ventress could have or could not have lasted longer in her fight against Dooku had he not used the Force that doesn't really matter considering the relative parity of their other performances, with the addition of Savage Ahsoka has no chance.Huh? Ahsoka can't handle Savage now? Lmao.
And what performances? She was driven away just as quickly by Windu and being => to a Council-level doesn't make her better than Ahsoka when she's equal to Maul.
Because Vader is not as agile as Dooku and Ahsoka's own form ( Ataru ) is itself aggressive.Dooku still isn't nearly as aggressive a duelist as Vader.
Let's be real here. She landed a force push on him, the fight continued. It's pretty much the equivalent of what Kas'im did to Bane in PoD. While impressive it isn't a feat of tactical brilliance or astonishing power. It shows she's somewhat comparable and that she can employ TK in combat. It's fine and all but I don't see how any of these feats are on par with those I mentioned for Ventress.Astonishing irony here:
Again, I'd disagree here. Causing avalanches, causing stalagmites to collapse, causing an explosion with her force blast and just generally being able to employ telekinesis that pushes back foes like Kenobi and Anakin is perhaps more impressive then Ahsoka's own feat.
If Ahsoka pushing Vader is not that impressive, Ventress pushing the likes of Anakin or Kenobi barely warrants a footnote.
Regardless, you continue to ignore the fact that Ahsoka with her TK KOed both the Seventh Sister and Fifth Brother with little difficulty, which surpasses anything Ventress has accomplished offensively.
The former who could Force grip a shuttle for a time and the latter Force gripped Kanan. Neither of which are that far off triggering an avalanche or dislodging stalagmites. Ahsoka is a vastly superior Force user to either, go figure.
Yes, and? Why would being in a combat situation increase Grievous's strength?My point is it's guesswork to assume how dominating that makes him in combat.
Vader has cybernetically enhanced strength, is vastly powerful in the Force, and is stronger than a being who exhausted Dooku with his attacks. But ripping out a console doesn't put Grievous on his level, which is a Legends showing anyway. Nor she we ignore the fact that Ventress only contends with his strength on a nexus.
It doesn't really matter considering this was before her prime anyways. I guess you could be right but nothing really notes his speed advantage over her just that he defeated her in a hard fought battle using all his skill.Fair enough, by Vader is vastly more powerful and skilled than Savage.
She also favors a single saber in DD so I think we can chalk it up as a fair defeat.
The fact that she's shown herself to be capable of fighting with them and not being outpaced. Ahsoka was faster then Vader? More nimble/agile maybe but I doubt she was faster.Nah, really no.She's matched Obi Wan in speed. She's matched Anakin in speed. Imo she matched Mace and Dooku in speed and was simply outskilled. None of these opponents are slower then canon Vader.
Ventress cannot match Dooku's speed.
Ventress cannot match Windu's speed.
Ventress cannot even match Kenobi's speed.
This should be plainly obvious from their feats e.g. contending with Yoda, or delivering six punches in one second, or contending with ROTS Vader, or deflecting almost 20 strikes per second.
Was she able to perceive and counter their attacks? Yes, for a brief time, but that doesn't mean she's on level with their speed, any more than it makes Bariss on level with Anakin or Maul on level with Palpatine.
It's possible to contend with someone and still be outclassed or at least surpassed in this regard.
Given that, no, Ventress cannot match Vader's speed, she cannot deflect omni-directional fire, she cannot emerge unscathed against a Lylek horde and she certainly cannot keep pace with Darth Sidious, I doubt she could even perceive him.
And by association I don't see her matching Ahsoka's speed either, which is at least equal to Vader. I would argue she was initially faster on the basis she kicked him in the face before he could even swing, and evade the majority of his subsequent attacks quite easily. Though it was a level of speed she was unable to maintain.
Maul in an atrophied state said that. I'm talking about Maul in his prime.Again this is baseless conjecture on your part. There is no reason to assume Maul's abilities have atrophied to any significant degree, when they didn't after 10 years of deranged seclusion, when he appears in excellent shape, performs admirably against the Inquisitors, and is barely in his fifties
And I could argue Maul is a more taxing opponent because he's more agile and comparable physically and thus is more aggressive and offensive lightsaber duelist. Vader can press a measured powerful offensive while Maul can press a broad sweeping and comparably powerful offensive. It's the difference between taking a hammer blow and defending against a rapier's many strikes.Evidently not if he can't defeat Vader, and for the record at that point Maul hadn't become accustomed to his new legs so its certainly not his prime.
Regardless, Ventress didn't engage Maul or Savage for nearly as long.
Also my apologies I don't know how I missed your post regarding Vader's TK.Concerning Karbin, looking over it again Vader doesn't really have any excuse not to just Force crush the guy. However considering he literally has zero excuse, and even goes to express the fact he wants to be done with this guy, I'm inclined to believe he was jobbing, for the sake of a cool fight.Pulling a statue on top of Karbin is effecting his environment not the opponent itself.
Are you talking about something from the comics in regards to Luke?
And yes in Vader's first encounter with Luke, he literally pulls his lightsaber out of his hand.