Petition made to boot Snyder

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't want a Marvel "Saturday morning cartoon" thing either,

I think the humor has really hurt several Marvel movies (Iron Man 3, Thor 2, AoU) but let's not exaggerate. I agree though, the reason Winter Soldier was my favorite Marvel movie is because they NAILED Cap's fighting abilities and the story/tone was fantastic. Also, Bucky as Winter Soldier was pure amazing to watch... It looks like Civil War is going to be more in line with Winter Soldier's tone so that's a good trend; especially considering Avengers 3 + 4 are going to be done by the Russo Brothers too.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Comon now, "Saturday morning cartoon"? Winter Soldier, Incredible Hulk, Iron Man etc would have words with you.

I think the humor has really hurt several Marvel movies (Iron Man 3, Thor 2, AoU) but let's not exaggerate. I agree though, the reason Winter Soldier was my favorite Marvel movie is because they NAILED Cap's fighting abilities and the story/tone was fantastic. Also, Bucky as Winter Soldier was pure amazing to watch... It looks like Civil War is going to be more in line with Winter Soldier's tone so that's a good trend; especially considering Avengers 3 + 4 are going to be done by the Russo Brothers too.

Winter Soldier is the only one I'd take as the exception.

In general, Marvel's movies, even as good as they've been, have been very "safe" movies. Iron Man, Hulk etc, are the same. They won't touch anything too dark or mature for fear that they might not reach as wide and as common an audience.

Likening them to cartoons isn't really an insult. I love something like Young Justice for example. But there's only so far they'll go (like them not willing to touch on Tony's alcoholism), and I would hope that WB/DC would push the envelope a bit more than that.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Winter Soldier is the only one I'd take as the exception.

In general, Marvel's movies, even as good as they've been, have been very "safe" movies. Iron Man, Hulk etc, are the same. They won't touch anything too dark or mature for fear that they might not reach as wide and as common an audience.

Likening them to cartoons isn't really an insult. I love something like Young Justice for example. But there's only so far they'll go (like them not willing to touch on Tony's alcoholism), and I would hope that WB/DC would push the envelope a bit more than that.

Russos are bringing that perfect mix of Dark and Light. DC and Marvel should both look at the Russos and try to accomplish that kind of tone. Main reason I'm super stoked for Civil War.

HACK SNYDER needs to go, that being said, WB is too stupid to listen so what THEY SHOULD do is hire another producer and give that person more power as they strip Hack of his power

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
I disagree in regards to TIH and IM1. Also, Marvel is moving in a more serious tone thankfully, now that Whedon is gone.

Russos are bringing that perfect mix of Dark and Light. DC and Marvel should both look at the Russos and try to accomplish that kind of tone. Main reason I'm super stoked for Civil War.

Guess we disagree then.

I do think the Russos do good work, but I don't think they're going to change Marvel in its entirety moving forward. Marvel at large has a mostly winning formula, and I don't expect them to deviate from it.

Like you though, I am psyched for Civil War.

Originally posted by -Pr-
But there's only so far they'll go (like them not willing to touch on Tony's alcoholism),

I was waiting for that in each IM sequel. Was surprised they never went there, as that was a classic IM story IMO, one that really made the Billionaire Playboy much more down to Earth and relatable. (Not that we're all alcoholics but we all have issues we try to ignore).

Plus they heavily hinted at it in IM1. And RDJ could have played that side of the character real well.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I was waiting for that in each IM sequel. Was surprised they never went there, as that was a classic IM story IMO, one that really made the Billionaire Playboy much more down to Earth and relatable. (Not that we're all alcoholics but we all have issues we try to ignore).

Plus they heavily hinted at it in IM1. And RDJ could have played that side of the character real well.

They wanted to, and even shot scenes for IM2 that referenced it, but Disney/Marvel shut them down.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guess we disagree then.

I do think the Russos do good work, but I don't think they're going to change Marvel in its entirety moving forward. Marvel at large has a mostly winning formula, and I don't expect them to deviate from it.

Like you though, I am psyched for Civil War.

Iron Man 1 had plenty of adult themes; like the morality of arms dealing and the effect it has on the world. Also, his alcoholism was referenced; it just didn't have a giant neon sign hanging around his neck that said "Alcoholic". All the violence in the film too....so many people got absolutely murdered in IM1. It was certainly not cartoonish. Yes, it was funny at times, but it had just the right amount. There are more cartoon like Marvel films like GoTG and Ant-Man, but I'm tired of people trying to lable Marvel movies as "Kids" movies.

They are for all ages. And again, The Russos ARE moving at least THEIR films in the more mature tone of WS. Seeing as they have Civil War and both Infinity War movies....I'm totally hyped about that.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
It's one thing to say Disney doesn't allow full on alcoholism, but that doesn't make it a cartoon.

Iron Man 1 had plenty of adult themes; like the morality of arms dealing and the effect it has on the world. Also, his alcoholism was referenced; it just didn't have a giant neon sign hanging around his neck that said "Alcoholic". All the violence in the film too....so many people got absolutely murdered in IM1. It was certainly not cartoonish. Yes, it was funny at times, but it had just the right amount. There are more cartoon like Marvel films like GoTG and Ant-Man, but I'm tired of people trying to lable Marvel movies as "Kids" movies.

They are for all ages. And again, The Russos ARE moving at least THEIR films in the more mature tone of WS. Seeing as they have Civil War and both Infinity War movies....I'm totally hyped about that.

I'm using cartoon as an example, not a knock against it in the slightest. I never said they were kids movies either.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm using cartoon as an example, not a knock against it in the slightest. I never said they were kids movies either.

Getting back on topic though........

Snyder needs to go.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
True, you haven't.

Getting back on topic though........

Snyder needs to go.

Agreed, but only if a DC guy like Johns is given some real power.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Agreed, but only if a DC guy like Johns is given some real power.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Maybe it just needs to have a talented guy, not a DC guy. Justice League maybe needs to be just a good movie rather than a good comic book movie.

TBH, that's not good enough for me. Maybe it is for others, but after the X-Men movies, no thanks.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Maybe it just needs to have a talented guy, not a DC guy. Justice League maybe needs to be just a good movie rather than a good comic book movie.

Have you not heard the complaints about how the characters are not portrayed correctly for this and for BvS?

People have their pre-conceived notions about these characters, so it's difficult for someone new to take them in their own direction just to make a good film.

That's where "Icons" as Quanchi puts it, can be more difficult to get "right" and can easily be polarising.

IMO They should get talented directors who have their vision, but they should have a DC guy (or group) watching over them and controlling the overall direction of the DCEU. That's what's working so well for Marvel and Star Wars.

To be honest, Batman and Superman shouldn't be hard to get right. Really. You can add all the depth you want, but they should always boil down to the universal themes that they've had for years:

Batman: Broody, doesn't play well with others, but secretly cares about the people around him. Smartest guy in the room.

Superman: Super nice. Boyscout. Saves cats from trees and always has a smile on his face. Just don't make him mad or you get the world of cardboard moment.

And you can even go to the Justice League if you want:

Wonder Woman: Regal, elegant, a warrior princess.

Aquaman: Solitary, broody king-type that lives between two words. Similar to wonder woman warrior wise. An outsider.

And so on. That's one thing the Marvel movies got right for the most part: The spirit of the characters even if they aren't 1:1 translations of the comics.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Aquaman: Solitary, broody king-type that lives between two words. Similar to wonder woman warrior wise. An outsider.

Talks to the fish, loves to throw starfish at people and is a big fan of seahorse riding, don't forget.

Also, bedded a halibut once.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's one of the things Marvel movies got right for the most part: The spirit of the characters even if they aren't 1:1 translations of the comics.

Originally posted by -Pr-

Superman: Super nice. Boyscout. Saves cats from trees and always has a smile on his face.

F*ck this. That's the Superman I borderline disliked for the first 23 years of my life. A one-dimensional, boring, morally omniscient dope who is locked into being a beacon of sunshine no matter the situation. Such a character is truly alien.

Cavill Superman is a far more relatable, grounded, and believable interpretation than Superman of yesteryear. If Superman was real he would have very little to smile about. People would to want kill him, control him, make him leave, or make him their god. Cavill portayed a HUMAN reaction to all of these viewpoints: outside of banging his girlfriend and saving little girls from fires the world kind of sucks, but he will still fight to protect it.

So you and your ilk can pine for the flag waving boy scout that was invented in the 50s, I will continue to enjoy the science fiction action hero he was originally designed to be with a 21st century twist.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Talks to the fish, loves to throw starfish at people and is a big fan of seahorse riding, don't forget.

Also, bedded a halibut once.

One time!

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Yep, the main reason I was so disappointed with BvS. Hopefully they'll right the ship going forward...otherwise they're gonna sink.

Aye.

Originally posted by TheGrat1
F*ck this. That's the Superman I borderline disliked for the first 23 years of my life. A one-dimensional, boring, morally omniscient dope who is locked into being a beacon of sunshine no matter the situation. Such a character is truly alien.

Cavill Superman is a far more relatable, grounded, and believable interpretation than Superman of yesteryear. If Superman was real he would have very little to smile about. People would to want kill him, control him, make him leave, or make him their god. Cavill portayed a HUMAN reaction to all of these viewpoints: outside of banging his girlfriend and saving little girls from fires the world kind of sucks, but he will still fight to protect it.

So you and your ilk can pine for the flag waving boy scout that was invented in the 50s, I will continue to enjoy the science fiction action hero he was originally designed to be with a 21st century twist.

Nobody said he had to be one-dimensional and boring. Being pleasant and polite doesn't make a person lack anything else bar a scowl.

Nice of you to twist what I was saying so utterly and completely though.

You're right, he wouldn't be one-dimensional he would be two-dimensional. Either smiling all the time or mad giving "World of cardboard" speeches. Such a compelling character. And I don't know about you, but getting the same character we've had since the 1970s does sound boring to me.

But hey let's apply these ideas to BvS. Should Kal-El be smiling while Lex tells him to go kill Batman? How about when he throws pictures of his tied up mother at him? Or is that when he goes: "You know what Lex? I live in a world of cardboard..." Or does he reach into his bag of boy scout tricks and tie Lex up with a sheepshank knot?

And was he not polite? Did he not calmly surrender to the military and Zod. Did he not show up for the senate hearing when he was asked to? He tried to have a cordial conversation with Bruce Wayne. And he also calmly but determinedly, tried to push the Gotham dock stories past Perry despite being shut down at every turn. By saying "pleasant and polite" you make it seem like he was bad Superman from Superman 3. I've already stated I can't expect a realistic person [read: not idealized icon] to be any more pleasant given his circumstances. Honestly, if the average mf was given Superman's abilities on Monday we would all probably be kneeling before them on Thursday.

Let's be real here. You are not asking for Cavill to say please and thank you more often. You yourself said always having a smile on his face. You want somethibg close to Reeve Superman. And there is nothing wrong with that version, it just wouldn't fly today.