H2h Tournament!!

Originally posted by deathslash
Slade was tired and half dead. Hardly an example of how a fight would actually go between them.

One guy is a peak human, and the other is a legitimate superhuman.

Ben has fought and matched Slade more than once and Slade wasn't weakened in all of them. As for the "superhuman" comment, Ben has taken on guy's a LOT more super human that BP.

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/5146893-suicide+squad+%2343+-+page+12.jpg

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/5146894-suicide+squad+%2343+-+page+13.jpg

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/5146895-suicide+squad+%2343+-+page+14.jpg

Steele Wolf is over/around Spidey level strength level and 1/2 - 1/4 his speed. He has durability around Arm Munro/ MLJ Shield level. Ben with skill danced around him and could put up a strike that "put him down" (though not out).

So is major Victory
https://au.pinterest.com/pin/438326976208208298/

Ravan had an exoskeleton that enhanced his physicals
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/6/67663/3184035-18.jpg

Which of course he needed just to walk after BT broke his back in their first encounter (so he was also blood lusted)

Ben has faced Superhuman quite a bit. The female furies for instance. Granted he didn't do to well vs Stompa but he did alright IIRC against Mad Harriet.

He's far from featless

and he managed to stalemate and actually have the upper-hand against richard dragon (whom he trained). the skrull feat has always been meh, to me. clearly the skrull didn't use all the skills, or all of them effectively. as i said, he's stronger, but by no means would his strength be a deciding factor in this imo. batman has similar feats and tiger actually one-shot dropped bats. a 13 hour battle is cool, but i don't think the battle would last that long. he lasted against danny ONLY because of his equipment and the fact that danny was basically fighting like a madman.... obviously bp has more feats--given the retarded bump he's had the last couple years, not hard to believe, but find me a time he fought someone as skilled as tiger without armor or weapons or any kind. i think you're putting bp in a skill tier he's not in. i'd say he's below guys like shang, danny, cap and daredevil. to me, that would put him below tiger, without any enhancements of course.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd say he's below guys like shang, danny, cap and daredevil.

Maybe. I wouldn't be too sure about that, but... maybe.

Not too much below, though:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80103/2601172-2562985_avsx_zone_015.jpg

But handbooks disagree with that, as they rate him at what... 5? That's lower than Cap, who has been downgraded to 6.

Originally posted by leonidas
and he managed to stalemate and actually have the upper-hand against richard dragon (whom he trained). the skrull feat has always been meh, to me. clearly the skrull didn't use all the skills, or all of them effectively. as i said, he's stronger, but by no means would his strength be a deciding factor in this imo. batman has similar feats and tiger actually one-shot dropped bats. a 13 hour battle is cool, but i don't think the battle would last that long. he lasted against danny ONLY because of his equipment and the fact that danny was basically fighting like a madman.... obviously bp has more feats--given the retarded bump he's had the last couple years, not hard to believe, but find me a time he fought someone as skilled as tiger without armor or weapons or any kind. i think you're putting bp in a skill tier he's not in. i'd say he's below guys like shang, danny, cap and daredevil. to me, that would put him below tiger, without any enhancements of course.

http://i1050.photobu...zps3a4f0cd0.jpg

I think it's enough of a difference to matter.

Pre-KotD, HSH-less Panther was believed to be faster than Daredevil by Luke Cage.

Originally posted by deathslash
Slade was tired and half dead. Hardly an example of how a fight would actually go between them. yeah, we all know what you think. You think that low showings, non fights, and fights with context (that you ignore) paint a picture of where panther stands.

Panther isn't on that level you try to pretend.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, he doesn't gets win over Bronze Tiger.

Panther isn't on that level you try to pretend.

Originally posted by deathslash
got anything other than lowballing, out of context showings, and single panel non fights to back up that claim? I doubt that you do, but I'll give you a chance to prove that you're not lying like you usually do.

He's stalemated Hickman's version of Batman... 😖hifty:

Originally posted by abhilegend
Huh? What martial artists Panther has beaten as of late to give him win over Bronze Tiger?

Kingpin wasn't beaten.

Wolverine wasn't beaten.

Dunno about LB and Mary, but if so, that's pretty decent. Matt has said that LB was at least as skilled as the original Bullseye.

Yeah, BT's biggest problem is that he lacks appearances.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He's stalemated Hickman's version of Batman... 😖hifty:

Originally posted by deathslash
kingpin, typhoid mary, lady bullseye, wolverine, and a few others. A better question would be what martial artists has Ben beaten that solidly puts him above panther?

Z listers like Typhoid Mary and Lady Bullseye? GTFO here.

Deathstroke.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Kingpin wasn't beaten.

Wolverine wasn't beaten.

Dunno about LB and Mary, but if so, that's pretty decent. Matt has said that LB was at least as skilled as the original Bullseye.

Yeah, BT's biggest problem is that he lacks appearances.

Best part is that he fought them without the hsb or king of the dead amps.
http://i1050.photobu...zpsa0a76102.jpg
http://i1050.photobu...zps6e9632d6.jpg
http://i1050.photobu...zps31d7a685.jpg
http://i1050.photobu...zpsec2c0040.jpg
http://i1050.photobu...zps66bf1a92.jpg
http://i1050.photobu...zps8f88078a.jpg

Let's also not forget about the infamous Karnak showings.

Logan got hit twice. So did Panther.

First issue of Death of Wolverine explained in detail that even though he retained his strength/speed, he was in a pretty horrible shape - radioactive bones covered in metal (from Hiroshima and Nagasaki)... not being able to produce red blood cells properly... plus those hand wounds because of the claws.

Basically, Richards was trying to convince Logan to keep a low profile, but of course he didn't listen.

Originally posted by abhilegend
👆
Kingpin and Wolverine weren't beaten. Logan had lost his HF and a portion of his memories.

Z listers like Typhoid Mary and Lady Bullseye? GTFO here.

Deathstroke.

Again, I need something other than a half dead Slade and a thirty year old batman showing. Tiger lacks a bunch of feats and he has several in which he gets owned.

Originally posted by deathslash
how does losing his healing factor affect the fight? It's not like panther stabbed him or he was significantly damaged before the fight and that isn't the first time that t'challa was shown to be on logan's level.

Are you serious? Logan had lost his HF and a portion of his skills due to losing the memories of training of Master Po.

Even then Panther didn't beat him.

Doing just as well as Matt does isn't a way to see how his skill stacks up? How the f*ck do you get that they're z-listers? Both Murdock and Logan have had trouble with Mary before and Matt has outright said that lady bullseye is at least on the level of her predecessor.

Due to her powers and unpredictable mind. Not due to her skills.

Her predeccesor? The same guy Matt beats the shit out of every other tuesday?

Wow, color me impressed.

Again, I need something other than a half dead Slade and a thirty year old batman showing. Tiger lacks a bunch of feats and he has several in which he gets owned.

There are two showings against Slade. Thirty year or forty years, the showing is still canon.

Just like Matt owning Panther casually.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you serious? Logan had lost his HF and a portion of his skills due to losing the memories of training of Master Po.

Even then Panther didn't beat him.

Due to her powers and unpredictable mind. Not due to her skills.

Her predeccesor? The same guy Matt beats the shit out of every other tuesday?

Wow, color me impressed.

There are two showings against Slade. Thirty year or forty years, the showing is still canon.

Just like Matt owning Panther casually.

*suggests that Matt beats bullseye every other Tuesday and ignores that lester has taken Matt down on more than one occasion.

*subtlety says that a thirty year old fight is indicative of how it'd play out today.

*ignores that in the very next fight, batman stalemates tiger

*brings up a low showing from about 20 years ago.

*ignores that bronze tiger was casually owned by lady shiva, beaten on by catman, and batman stalemates him when he's actually ready and knows how skilled he is.

*probably gonna bring up some more low end showings and out of context fights to "prove" that panther is below bt.

Yep, seems like an abhi post to me.

Originally posted by deathslash
*addresses one fight with logan and ignores the other two or the fight that panther had against logan's superior (sabretooth)

Logan beats Sabretooth like red headed step child these days.

Even then Creed had him at his mercy.

*suggests that Matt beats bullseye every other Tuesday and ignores that lester has taken Matt down on more than one occasion.

Not due to his skills in h2h. An absolutely exhausted Daredevil destroyed him casually.

*subtlety says that a thirty year old fight is indicative of how it'd play out today.

Why not? Is Panther more skilled now?

*ignores that in the very next fight, batman stalemates tiger

Well, he is Batman.

*brings up a low showing from about 20 years ago.

Haha, its a low showing where arguably the most skilled human hero in Marvel beats Panther. Losing to Daredevil isn't a low showing.

*ignores that bronze tiger was casually owned by lady shiva, beaten on by catman, and batman stalemates him when he's actually ready and knows how skilled he is.

Shiva is just that good. Catman stalemated Batman in the very same series.

Batman is Batman.

*probably gonna bring up some more low end showings and out of context fights to "prove" that panther is below bt.

Pretends that anything where Panther doesn't immediately own someone is a low showing.

Yep, seems like an abhi post to me.

Sure seems like a Vanguard post to me. Contrary to what you think, Panther isn't some unbeatable badass.

Originally posted by deathslash
*subtlety says that a thirty year old fight is indicative of how it'd play out today.

*ignores that in the very next fight, batman stalemates tiger

Ben and Bruce have fought several times. They fought in the first run of Suicide Squad, In JLTF, and again in justice league. All were stalemates, on top of the two fights from Detective comics.

*ignores that bronze tiger was casually owned by lady shiva, beaten on by catman, and batman stalemates him when he's actually ready and knows how skilled he is.

Shiva would own T'Challa too. Bruce has even stated the reason he went to her to train after bane broke his back was because she was the best and he needed his edge back. ANYONE loosing to Shiva is THE expectation NOT a low showing.

Catman has done that to Batman TOO AND he did it to Batman when he wasn't getting fan wanked by Simone.

Wait, getting evenly matched by Batman is now a low feat for a street leveller??? O_o Bruce is high on skill AND carries more weapons than almost anyone. Leo commented that T'Challa in his opinion wouldn't take the majority without his gear. Bruce wouldn't either.

I showed the scans of BT vs Steele Wolfe. SW is basically a more skilled and faster version of Toombstone. Ben can put him down he is capable of putting down T'Challa

Originally posted by abhilegend
Logan beats Sabretooth like red headed step child these days.

Even then Creed had him at his mercy.

Not due to his skills in h2h. An absolutely exhausted Daredevil destroyed him casually.

Why not? Is Panther more skilled now?

Well, he is Batman.

Haha, its a low showing where arguably the most skilled human hero in Marvel beats Panther. Losing to Daredevil isn't a low showing.

Shiva is just that good. Catman stalemated Batman in the very same series.

Batman is Batman.

Pretends that anything where Panther doesn't immediately own someone is a low showing.

Sure seems like a Vanguard post to me. Contrary to what you think, Panther isn't some unbeatable badass.

Matt has always had problems with bullseye, both at range and in h2h.

I'm suggesting that batman was less skilled back then. Seriously look at his win/loss ratio and the people he's had trouble with. KGBeast, the reaper, bane, deathstroke, cobra, there's others; I'm too lazy to look them up, but there are others.

It's a low showing when you're wearing armor that protects you from any sort of impact short of a herald's punch and you get downed from a knee to the face.

Batman has casually downed her before. Batman was hardly fighting back in the beginning while Catman was practically going all out.

Naw, I recognize that Panther is beneath quite a few people. I just don't see Ben overcoming the state difference. Sure, he's beaten superpowered enemies before, but how many of them were actually martial artists too?