Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I wanna see you and Tempest debate, legend.Not because he'll "crush you" I'm genuinely curious how'd that go.
I will do a comparison between Palpatine and Valkorion in disembodied spectrum soon. It will be the end of it all.
Re: Novel Vitiate runs the NJO villain gauntlet
Warm-up/trash: Darth Bane
Bane's feats are nothing compared to Vitiate, he dies like a wimp.
1. Marka Ragnos
2. Exar Kun
Vitiate is canonically stronger than any sith before him. Exar might get in a few freak wins against the novel version if he can close the distance depending on starting position, but Valkorion has apparently gotten better at defending himself close quarters; he dispatches them with ease.
3. Shimrra
I don't remember if Shimrra's immunity to the Force extends to Force lightning. If it does, she probably rushes novel Vitiate and cuts him down before he can realize that his attacks aren't working. Valkorion probably still wins given his superior power set; he can deflect Shimrra's attacks, teleport away, and then projectile spam him.
4. Hidden One
The Hidden One lasted a decent time against Luke, but lots of people do; Luke doesn't tend to curbstomp people. He managed to pick Skywalker back with his lightning but otherwise failed to do any serious damage to him. I'd put him above Dooku and maybe Vader as a Force wielder, but it's unclear if he can take down Vitiate. Given his lack of concrete feats or ability to do much to Luke at all, I think it's more likely that he cannot match the sheer versatility and planetary scale of Vitiate's abilities.
5. Dark-side Luke (Dark Empire)
Hmmm, this Luke is weaker than the one at the end of Dark Empire. Still, IIRC Palpatine acknowledged that beginning-of-DE Luke would pose a challenge in a fight (but ultimately lose), so he is around at least pre-DE Sidious's tier. I think he defeats Vitiate by virtue of having enough strength in the Force and with energy absorption to survive enough for melee, which he then crushes him in. Luke at this point has some pretty ridiculous speed feats that make it unlikely Vitiate's going to overwhelm him in the 0.5 seconds he'll have.
I'm split with Valkorion.
6. UnuThul
UnuThul's raw power is one of the greatest in the mythos, particularly before IIRC much of the Killik hive had been destroyed, before which he was basically ragdolling Luke, bending back turbolasers, etc. He probably defeats either incarnation, although I'm not sure if he could do anything against their spirit forms.
7. Darth Caedus
Caedus is strong enough in the Force to not get ragdolled, and he's fast and competent enough to force a melee, at which point he eviscerates them both.
8. Wankatine
😆
9. Taalan (post pool of knowledge)
Taalan was ragdolling Luke and moving so fast to him he appeared to teleport. He drank from the pool of knowledge; he's on a far, far higher tier than Vitiate, or likely any previous Sith for that matter.
10. Lord Nyax
Nyax was f*cking with Luke and several other Jedi at the same time, but I get the feeling that this was more Luke jobbing than anything. Still, he probably defeats Vitiate assuming he can deflect lightning.
Boss: Abeloth
Vitiate knows fear.
Re: Re: Novel Vitiate runs the NJO villain gauntlet
Originally posted by The Ellimist
5. Dark-side Luke (Dark Empire)Hmmm, this Luke is weaker than the one at the end of Dark Empire. Still, IIRC Palpatine acknowledged that beginning-of-DE Luke would pose a challenge in a fight (but ultimately lose), so he is around at least pre-DE Sidious's tier. I think he defeats Vitiate by virtue of having enough strength in the Force and with energy absorption to survive enough for melee, which he then crushes him in. Luke at this point has some pretty ridiculous speed feats that make it unlikely Vitiate's going to overwhelm him in the 0.5 seconds he'll have.
I'm split with Valkorion.
Exar Kun proved that Luke Skywalker during DE and NJO was not prepared to go toe-to-toe against some of the greatest Sith sorcerers of the mythos.
He isn't beating Vitiate. Forget Valkorion.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
6. UnuThulUnuThul's raw power is one of the greatest in the mythos, particularly before IIRC much of the Killik hive had been destroyed, before which he was basically ragdolling Luke, bending back turbolasers, etc. He probably defeats either incarnation, although I'm not sure if he could do anything against their spirit forms.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
7. Darth CaedusCaedus is strong enough in the Force to not get ragdolled, and he's fast and competent enough to force a melee, at which point he eviscerates them both.
Vitiate could ragdoll Revan (Reborn) who is just as powerful as Darth Caedus.
Valkorion doesn't even needs a mention; he could repel lightsaber strikes at point blank range and is also noticeably more powerful at this point.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
8. Wankatine😆
Originally posted by The Ellimist
9. Taalan (post pool of knowledge)Taalan was ragdolling Luke and moving so fast to him he appeared to teleport. He drank from the pool of knowledge; he's on a far, far higher tier than Vitiate, or likely any previous Sith for that matter.
Taalon wasn't ragdolling Luke Skywalker; he was able to affect him with his powers though. However, Luke was badly injured at this point and was not operating at his maximum.
Taalon (even after bathing in the pool of knowledge) is no where near as powerful as you are making him out to be, not at the point of his death at the least. And guess who killed him? Vestara Khai
Sorry, Taalon isn't in the league of even Vitiate, let alone Valkorion
Originally posted by The Ellimist
10. Lord NyaxNyax was f*cking with Luke and several other Jedi at the same time, but I get the feeling that this was more Luke jobbing than anything. Still, he probably defeats Vitiate assuming he can deflect lightning.
Lord Nyax might be able to hold his own against Vitiate but victory is not guaranteed. Vitiate will wreck him with his powers.
Forget Valkorion.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
It took the spirits of thousands of Jedi to imprison Palpatine's spirit.
Empatojayos Brand gets the credit for dooming Palpatine's essence to void forever. He trapped Palpatine's essence within him while he was dying and this did the trick.
As the Emperor fell towards death yet again, he attempted to send his spirit into the baby Anakin - but Empatojayos Brand intercepted the dark essence. Clasping himself to the light, Brand held the Emperor's presence within his body as they both succumbed to death.
With all of his clones destroyed, Emperor Palpatine was finally defeated.
Taken from Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology
--
Before his soul could enter Anakin's body, Palpatine was intercepted by a newfound Jedi Empatojayos Brand. Cut off from host body, Palpatine's essence dissipated, to be consumed by madness that was the Dark Side. After so many decades of bloodshed, the Emperor was truly dead.
Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Originally posted by NewGuy01
How does Valkorion plan on killing him?
Re: Re: Re: Novel Vitiate runs the NJO villain gauntlet
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Luke Skywalker, during this time, is a match for Palpatine only in martial aspects of combat. Palpatine could destroy him but Luke was the darling.
Luke is significantly faster than Vitiate. He can blitz him.
Exar Kun proved that Luke Skywalker during DE and NJO was not prepared to go toe-to-toe against some of the greatest Sith sorcerers of the mythos.He isn't beating Vitiate. Forget Valkorion.
Yeah, JA Luke (who is written significantly weaker than his DE incarnation for some reason) lost to a DS-nexus amped Exar Kun and Kyp Durron. Hardly the same thing...
UnuThul have nothing on Valkorion.
Brilliant argument. Valkorion has never demonstrated telekinesis on the level of ragdolling Luke or bending turbolasers away from his ship. He does have the Force potential of an entire colony of billions of Killiks to directly draw upon.
Right...Vitiate could ragdoll Revan (Reborn) who is just as powerful as Darth Caedus.
Firstly, the notion that Revan could, either by feats or accolades, be considered a match for Caedus except by your trademarked circular powerscaling off of Vitiate is lolworthy.
Secondly, Vitiate did not "ragdoll" Revan. He blasted him back once, and then got knocked on his ass by his own lightning. The only reason why he won was because Revan wasn't fast enough to close the gap, but Caedus's speed feats are infinitely greater than Revan's, and he possesses Force lightning and illusion abilities to stall Vitiate as he closes the distance.
What you seem to fail to recognize is that it typically takes a really big disparity in Force ability to outright overpower someone in that manner. If two combatants are even only separated by a modest amount, they cannot ragdoll one another, and a melee occurs. Vader couldn't ragdoll Ahsoka; Yoda couldn't ragdoll Dooku. Vitiate has basically two seconds to overwhelm Caedus before he gets knocked on his ass and killed.
Valkorion doesn't even needs a mention; he could repel lightsaber strikes at point blank range and is also noticeably more powerful at this point.
Ignoring your trademarked usage of vague and meaningless adjectives, Arcann was making slow-ass, predictable lightsaber strikes. He was just distracting him, after all. This doesn't compare to what Caedus would do at melee, particularly given his shatterpoint ability.
He might stop Vitiate but he isn't stopping Valkorion
This would only be true if Valkorion were so monstrously beyond Palpatine that he could outright ragdoll/kill him in the Force in the 0.5 seconds he has before a melee battle is forced. Even your "if RotJ Sidious is a 100" chart puts the gap between them at a merely modest degree.
In the Force, Wankatine eclipses Valkorion's best destructive feat (Force storms are done on a lighter whim and cause more environmental destruction, Vitiate/Valkorion needs rituals, plus he can destroy Eclipse SSD's and teleport people lightyears), far eclipses his best telekinesis feat (he can apparently take down the imperial palace which is vastly larger than that temple), eclipses his greatest lightning feat (Valkorion has never taken down an opponent as strong as Yoda with uncharged lightning, he needed to gather his energy to overwhelm Revan as his standard ones were being reflected back at him), and is unimaginably faster than him. Of course, up close Valkorion dies within seconds.
BullshitTaalon wasn't ragdolling Luke Skywalker; he was able to affect him with his powers though. However, Luke was badly injured at this point and was not operating at his maximum.
Since when was Luke injured? Taalon was flinging him out of windows and moving himself so quickly Luke couldn't perceive him. He seems to be more powerful than him in the Force.
Taalon (even after bathing in the pool of knowledge) is no where near as powerful as you are making him out to be, not at the point of his death at the least. And guess who killed him? Vestara Khai
Your dishonesty reeks as palpably as your laughable argumentation. Vestara takes him by surprise and stabs him in the back; you know, just like the Outlander does to Valkorion. It has absolutely nothing to do with his fight against Valkorion, and you probably know that.
Sorry, Taalon isn't in the league of even Vitiate, let alone Valkorion
Seeing as how he's faster than Luke, who is roflamo faster than Valkorion, and can ragdoll him, while Vitiate apparently can't even ragdoll Revan, nah.
Lord Nyax might be able to hold his own against Vitiate but victory is not guaranteed. Vitiate will wreck him with his powers.
Forget Valkorion.
I...I know English isn't your native language, but your sentence construction is so awkward it actually makes me cringe reading it.
Anyway, as with your Unuthul non-answer you don't even try to give a substantive reply to this. Nyax's eight lightsabers would dice Vitiate to pieces, and he's fast enough that Luke had trouble keeping up with him. We don't see any tutanimus feats on his part, but he's presumably strong enough that Luke cannot ragdoll him, and Luke's TK feats >>>>> Vitiate's.
Originally posted by MythLord
I don't know what's worse between arguing Luke can stomp or blitz Vitiate or arguing Vitiate/Valkorion is in a whole nother league when compared to Taalon, who's superior to Skywalker.
Either way, it's cancer.
Of course you don't. Looking at your posting history, you're obviously too stupid to make a cogent point more complicated than "it's cancer".
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Of course you don't. Looking at your posting history, you're obviously too stupid to make a cogent point more complicated than "it's cancer".
Re: Re: Re: Re: Novel Vitiate runs the NJO villain gauntlet
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Luke is significantly faster than Vitiate. He can blitz him.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah, JA Luke (who is written significantly weaker than his DE incarnation for some reason) lost to a DS-nexus amped Exar Kun and Kyp Durron. Hardly the same thing...
Exar Kun was a spirit during this time and significantly weakened; he drew strength from other individuals to manifest and affect them.
For a time, he is able to subside by feeding on their residual energy, but soon he will need worshippers if he is to grow more active. With a nucleus of followers to provide him energy-providing anger and fear, Kun will have enough power to escape his exile and take on human form.
Taken from Jedi Academy Sourcebook
Kyp Durron was just a padawan during this time and his abilities were feeble in comparison to those of Exar Kun during this time.
He reached out with his mind, following the paths of the Force that led to every object in the universe, drawing power from the cosmic focal point of the Massassi temple. He searched, sending his thoughts like a probe deep into the storm systems of the gas giant. Behind him, Kyp felt the black-ice power of Exar Kun arise, tapping into him and reinforcing his abilities. His own feeble exploratory touch suddenly plunged forward like a blaster bolt.
Taken from Jedi Academy Trilogy: Dark Apprentice
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Brilliant argument. Valkorion has never demonstrated telekinesis on the level of ragdolling Luke or bending turbolasers away from his ship. He does have the Force potential of an entire colony of billions of Killiks to directly draw upon.
If Turbolasers could stop Valkorion, his enemies would have employed this strategy against him. Don't you think?
Siphoning life-force of millions (or billions) contribute little to growth in power in a short span of time. Otherwise, Palpatine would have been unstoppable.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Firstly, the notion that Revan could, either by feats or accolades, be considered a match for Caedus except by your trademarked circular powerscaling off of Vitiate is lolworthy.
Darth Caedus might be superior duelist then Revan but this won't make any difference vis-a-vis Vitiate.
Forget Valkorion.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Secondly, Vitiate did not "ragdoll" Revan. He blasted him back once, and then got knocked on his ass by his own lightning. The only reason why he won was because Revan wasn't fast enough to close the gap, but Caedus's speed feats are infinitely greater than Revan's, and he possesses Force lightning and illusion abilities to stall Vitiate as he closes the distance.What you seem to fail to recognize is that it typically takes a really big disparity in Force ability to outright overpower someone in that manner. If two combatants are even only separated by a modest amount, they cannot ragdoll one another, and a melee occurs. Vader couldn't ragdoll Ahsoka; Yoda couldn't ragdoll Dooku. Vitiate has basically two seconds to overwhelm Caedus before he gets knocked on his ass and killed.
Go through the 'speed' section of the Revan Respect Thread: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revan-respect-thread/95278/
I am not interested in writing detailed responses at the moment. Tomorrow perhaps, should the need arise.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Ignoring your trademarked usage of vague and meaningless adjectives, Arcann was making slow-ass, predictable lightsaber strikes. He was just distracting him, after all. This doesn't compare to what Caedus would do at melee, particularly given his shatterpoint ability.
But considering your nonsense, everybody is slow-ass because they look like that in the movies.
Look how slow Darth Maul is:
Wait, look how slow Obi-Wan Kenobi is since Cad Bane (a none-Force sensitive) got the better of him:
Logic and common sense be damned. 🙄
Well let's see here:
- he ragdolled the Outlander, as a ghost.
- he collapsed a massive temple, while on his deathbed and before growing substantially in power
- he has the power to reduce an entire damn planet to a small, grey shell devoid of all life ala Nihilus-style
- he's summoned Force Storms, while a spirit, to destroy a fleet
- he's formed barriers that guarded against lightsaber strikes
- he has the raw power of 8000 Sith Lords
Do I need to go on? Physical stats are, more often than not, influenced directly by one's power and mastery in the force. Valkorion being the insanely powerful being that he is should logically be amplifying his strength, speed, etc. to the point where he won't be downright blitzed by Luke.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Novel Vitiate runs the NJO villain gauntlet
Originally posted by The Ellimist
This would only be true if Valkorion were so monstrously beyond Palpatine that he could outright ragdoll/kill him in the Force in the 0.5 seconds he has before a melee battle is forced. Even your "if RotJ Sidious is a 100" chart puts the gap between them at a merely modest degree.
Valkorion doesn't needs to be monstrouly beyond Palpatine to defeat him. Also, Valkorion can repel Lightsaber strikes at point blank range so Palpatine isn't getting through his defenses easily even if he somehow forces a melee duel early on. And even if Valkorion is struck down, he will still be present (in disembodied form) and would take Palpatine by surprise at this point.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
In the Force, Wankatine eclipses Valkorion's best destructive feat (Force storms are done on a lighter whim and cause more environmental destruction, Vitiate/Valkorion needs rituals, plus he can destroy Eclipse SSD's and teleport people lightyears), far eclipses his best telekinesis feat (he can apparently take down the imperial palace which is vastly larger than that temple), eclipses his greatest lightning feat (Valkorion has never taken down an opponent as strong as Yoda with uncharged lightning, he needed to gather his energy to overwhelm Revan as his standard ones were being reflected back at him), and is unimaginably faster than him. Of course, up close Valkorion dies within seconds.
Even Palpatine's greatest powers cannot affect Valkorion in disembodied form, period.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Since when was Luke injured? Taalon was flinging him out of windows and moving himself so quickly Luke couldn't perceive him. He seems to be more powerful than him in the Force.
From his fight against Abeloth earlier?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Your dishonesty reeks as palpably as your laughable argumentation. Vestara takes him by surprise and stabs him in the back; you know, just like the Outlander does to Valkorion. It has absolutely nothing to do with his fight against Valkorion, and you probably know that.
Here is something for you:
Had the High Lord been at his best, he would have simply redirected the girl straight into Luke. Weakened as he was by his injury and his ongoing transformation, he barely managed to Force-jump over her - and that left him vulnerable.
Taken from Legacy of the Force: Vortex
I am not sure from where people are getting the idea that Taalon was godlike during his transformation?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Seeing as how he's faster than Luke, who is roflamo faster than Valkorion, and can ragdoll him, while Vitiate apparently can't even ragdoll Revan, nah.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I...I know English isn't your native language, but your sentence construction is so awkward it actually makes me cringe reading it.Anyway, as with your Unuthul non-answer you don't even try to give a substantive reply to this. Nyax's eight lightsabers would dice Vitiate to pieces, and he's fast enough that Luke had trouble keeping up with him. We don't see any tutanimus feats on his part, but he's presumably strong enough that Luke cannot ragdoll him, and Luke's TK feats >>>>> Vitiate's.
Vitiate, even as of Revan, was so strong that Revan could not affect him with his Telekinetic powers and Revan have some of the best Telekinetic showings in combat situations in the mythos. Check his respect thread for more information.
I wouldn't boast that Luke have superior Telekinetic powers then Valkorion because the latter seldom uses them. But whenever he have, he have dominated virtually everybody with them.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Brand said he would drag the Emperor to the netherworld of the Force with him, where the spirits of "all the Jedi that came before" would ensure that he never returned. That is neither opinion nor hyperbole.
No neutral source affirms this claim. You can check the revelations provided by me from two sources.