Originally posted by Nephthys
This comeback didn't even make sense on Sunday when you wrote it so it doubly doesn't work now.
The more nuanced point is that every argument you make about particular feats or events comes replete with certain assumptions about the inherent rationality of the universe. The only standards needed to develop scientific models about something are testability (if that's a word), consistency and rationality. If these things can't be assumed then we cannot possibly have any of these discussions, because debating whether Sidious or Valkorion can destroy more of a planet requires these premises.
The point that both JkBart and I made on page 1 is that every feats analysis you make ultimately reduces to math and physics, even if it's just "it's harder to move heavier things than lighter things, so Yoda TK'ing transports is more impressive than Bane TK'ing tents" - that's still a matter of inertia.
Well firstly it wasn't cherry picking nor was it a typo. You had 3 opportunities to get it right and you blew it. Secondly, argument? I lol'd at you because you said something ridiculous. Get over it, nerd.
👆 Your desperation to come up with something of substance to win is a very unique treat for outsiders to enjoy. Keep it up.
I also had an epiphany, where I enjoyed the irony of you acting like King Shit while talking about how amazingly smart you are, while simultaneously being too stupid to figure out my actual argument. It was like a funny little miracle that happened in my heart.My point isn't "physics don't apply to Star Wars", it's that in Star Wars there exists technology that can blatantly ignore or contradict physics. There are machines that simulate the gravitational pull of a planet on starships. You think they line the bottom of shuttles with the equivalent to 300 trillion tons of mass? No, they just manipulate gravity because that's something you just can do in Star Wars.
😐 You do know that we can simulate local gravitational fields on spaceships today, right?
But your inaccurate analogy aside, the argument here is not that Star Wars mirrors real-life physics, but that it has its own physics that must contain some manner of internal consistency for science and engineering to matter in Star Wars, and it's obvious that they do, given the presence of scientists, engineers, and reliable technology. We can observe that Star Wars gravity obeys our own at least to the classical limit, because planets orbit stars and humans stick to planets in familiar ways. Ergo, we can state with a reasonable degree of certainty that Newton's laws and even general relativity are valid approximations for physical events in Star Wars, barring possible exceptions such as hyperspace.
BTW, this isn't just a matter of opinion: Saxton's ICS's pretty much put the nail in the coffin on the "physics don't exist in Star Wars" crowd.
They regularly push the laws of physics over a pinball machine and go Indiana Jones on them. It's impossible to use real physics to calculate how much mass a "black hole" has when the dang thing was created using physics-defying magic technology/biology? in the first place. The fatal flaw in your argument is that you cannot get around this basic fact and you cannot reliably prove anything.
Funny thing is I never argued that as an assumption - I made several points as to why we can apply Newton's laws here, the first time being in the OP, and you've never bothered to respond to any of them.
Saxton's ICS's once again put the nail in the coffin to your idea.
The Force is an obviously impossible concept, built off of made up magic science. However the fantastical explanation for how it works allows us to suspend our disbelief and it's internally consistent enough with it's rules and how it functions to discuss in a way that's logical and reasonable. On the flipside you don't know anything about how Dovin Basal's work. You don't know the mechanics of the singularities they create or how anything related to them functions. You're making the rules up as you go, as it suits your purposes to do so.It's also kind of funny how you bring up the Force when the Force can manipulate gravity without relying on mass or anything, pretty easily.
If they were artificial gravity generators that didn't rely on high concentrations of mass-energy...why are they called black holes? They look like black holes, they're called black holes by both the narrator and the characters, and they happen to be really big and difficult to move.
I find it hilarious that you're talking about some sort of threshold whereby someone ceases registering their opponents response and just spams the same thing over and over, while guilty of doing just that while being too thick to be self-aware about it. Again, tiny miracle etc. You're the dumbass that keeps giving. Like St. Stupid in a shiny red dunce hat, wearing elf slippers with the bells tied together, carrying a sack full of rotting dog carcasses and fallacies.
I'll admit, that last sentence is a lot wittier and more eloquent than I'd expect from someone for whom creative writing was supposed to be his academic specialty. Ironically enough, Tempest and I can write better than you, despite [at least me] pursuing unrelated careers, but good job with this one. 👆
It would violate mass energy equivalence and conservation?! In Star Wars??! No waaaaay!!!!! They already are magic bullshit black holes. Ain't no ****ing artificial black holes in real life. How could we possibly predict how they work, when they're they're very existence is so blatantly impossible in the first place.
For one thing, Saxton's canon books confirm that mass-energy equivalence and conservation exist in Star Wars, as do plenty of other sources like the Death Star novel. For another, we can observe mass-energy conservation in plenty of aspects of Star Wars, such as the presence of nuclear fusion at apparently the same efficacy and ratio as our own, the validity of Maxwell's equations given the familiar behavior of EM, etc.
Also aren't Dovin Basals animals? And according to you they can just pop millions of tons out of thin air whenever they want? Doesn't that violate mass-energy equivalence and conservation? Where the hell do these black holes come from? Do they poop em out? What do they feed those ****in' things, jesus.
Not really, since we don't know where they get that mass-energy from. They could have harnessed the theoretical zero point vacuum energy of the universe, or they could have some of their mass-energy stored in hyperspace (Saxton did some more analysis on this with respect to hypermatter, and actually came up with a mathematically consistent, if not true in real life, model for how it could work).
Ghey. At least put some effort into ducking the point, dickspray.
Literally everything I've been talking about since the OP (.ie how we can observe RL physics in SW, Saxton's ICS's, occam's razor) was me addressing this point. You must realize that "it's just a fictional space opera!" wasn't an argument that escaped my anticipation.
Lol, I knew you'd actually do the math if I b8ed you about it.
I actually did the math in the OP, but these are big numbers so I'm not surprised that you didn't get it.
No superior model exists because it's impossible to actually calculate it when it's based on so many unknown variables.
Um...no? We need to choose superior models when there are unknown variables all the time. Like with real-life science, and determining whether Sidious could beat Valkorion in a fight, or rather how many seconds it would take for Vitiate to die.
Yeah, but my dick is a WMD. I can literally force you to your knees before it. Bow down, b*tch.
Funny, you masturbate to Tulak Hord bringing down a ship, but according to you physics, and by extension inertia, doesn't exist in Star Wars. mmm
The black hole being artificial or not doesn't change the feat, it's essentially still a black hole. What's the difference, exactly? And smaller black holes suck at absorbing stuff, they still have a tremendous amount of mass. A Micro Black Hole like the ones described in the Dovin Basals should have the mass of a small moon. And Luke had to have moved it faster than the torpedoes from the New Republic that were attacking the vehicle so that the black hole can collapse and said missiles hit its target. They move at Hypersonic speeds.
If this were some ancient Sith people would be gargling said Siths' c*** btw.