How powerful is Darth Bane?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I don't have Force and Destiny anymore, but it's definitely in the there, for starters, each generation of Banite Sith, excluding the likes of Maul/Dooku/Vader, etc, is more powerful than the last. People like the above or DMB don't like that fact so they generally ignore it in favor of wanking the way he's portrayed in the novel.

They certainly need more respect, although it's not like there's enough information on them to make a decent respect thread out of.

Not sure why people are reluctant to accept that characters like Cognus, Millenial, Vectivus, Gravid, Gean, Ramage, and Tenebrous are Bane level Sith Lords or higher though tbh.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Uh, no, the Lords in the brotherhood were weaker than their half-trained apprentices on Korriban. They were being beaten by an Army of Light that pretty much gave force sensitive street rats lightsabers and called them Jedi. The standards of that era on both sides were absolutely abysmal.

@DMB btw, that Sith Marauder accolade isn't as great as you say it is. The accolade in context mentions that members of both sides saw personal advancement, and that Padawans "could survive" against Marauders. That doesn't translate into Marauders rekting padawans most of the time, unless you're being generous.

That said, I'm not under the impression an average Sith Lord from Kaan's age is necessarily padawan-level. Just that they don't stack up to the Sith Lords of other eras. I think it's particularly telling that the Korriban apprentices are supposed to be what turns Rusaan in the Sith's favour given that, as Sas said, it's mostly made up of half-trained apprentices.

There also isn't a universal standard for what makes a good Sith in those days. The strength of the Sith produced seemed to have something to do with where they were trained. I can't understand how an apprentice with unfinished training from Korriban can be superior to a Sith Lord from another system, and still be told this era of Sith isn't sub-par.

Millenial wouldn't get that scaling. He left the order without overthrowing Cognus.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Eh I have Plagueis>Bane and people seem to have Sheev and Yoda far above any other Jedi or Sith in the era, so this quote doesn't really damage my view of Bane regardless. In any case, could you hook me up with a scan? I'm currently working on an RT for all the intermediary Banite Sith.

Maul>Sidious>Plagueis confirmed!

It's over ILS! You've won!

nah but thanks for the scan, I don't actually own the book.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Millenial wouldn't get that scaling. He left the order without overthrowing Cognus.

Maybe, maybe not. To be fair, we don't really know at what point in his training he defected from the Rule of Two. I suspect it was pretty late in, given that he left due to disillusionment with Bane's philosophy and went on to create his own Sith faction.

nevermind, pussylips

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Maul>Sidious>Plagueis confirmed!

It's over ILS! You've won!

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Millenial wouldn't get that scaling. He left the order without overthrowing Cognus.

Speaking of Millennial, I really wish there had been more information on him. I mean a 3 eyed cyclops Force User? Sounds pretty cool.

Vader.

His fighting style is something of a hybrid of a Vader and a Dooku, but his overall ability level should be hanging somewhere around Maul.

Mauls raw force ability?
That kinda power scaling....I would think Bane is higher than Maul in the force.

But I think Bane is..a Makashi duelist with a hard swing and instead of swaying and evasion he will block them directly with the grace of an over powering sword fighter.

I don't think you said a single correct thing. Not even one.

Bane can't drop ETA shuttles while injured, ragdoll Kenobi, or cause a force image to haunt Leia decades after TPM

Bane's force abilities aside from lightnin while unamped are garbage

Originally posted by ILS
I'd disagree. The simple fact is these other eras of Sith I'm talking about are extremely competitive. They promote competition, rivalry and backstabbing. Kaan's brotherhood doesn't.

Who is going to be more powerful, one of Kaan's backwards Sith with little ambition other than to serve the Brotherhood as an equal to every other Sith Lord, or one of Darth Krayt's Sith who are constantly vying for a place underneath him as an enforcer or hand? Constantly deceiving and backstabbing each other for a chance to gain promotion?

Also, it just occurred to me that this could be another way to wank the DotJ era. Wewt.

The Brotherhood Sith compete with the Jedi though. Constant warfare would achieve the same thing and possibly more than what Krayts Sith backstabbing each other would.

Originally posted by ILS
Force potential is definitely important. What I also see is that every great Force user became great because they were forced to push their limits. Which is why it makes sense for Jedi and Sith during periods of war to see rapid growth; they're being tested.

It's actually said in Path of Destruction pretty explicitly. Sirak was a great duelist, better than everyone else at the academy by a long shot, but he lacked valuable experience. He didn't ever fight difficult opponents, he mopped the floor with everyone. The reason Bane became so much better than Sirak is because he sparred with the best. And because he's a Gary Stu, but yeah.

So with Kaan's Sith not only formally forbidding, but philosophically looking down upon competition and rivalry between Sith, they don't have the means to push themselves as far as Sith who are at each other's throats constantly.

Lol you actually point out that war is a great time to see rapid growth but failed to connect the dots with the Brotherhood.

Seeing as the war ended up being a meat grinder I'd say it had the opposite effect.

On par with Count Dooku in a neutral setting, IMO.

Essentially this: Darth Vader > Darth Bane >= Count Dooku > Darth Maul

As far as Brotherhood Sith are concerned; they strayed from the teachings of ancient Sith and embraced the philosophy of equality instead. Due to this factor, they were not interested in developing new powers and/or rediscover them. There curriculum was limited to standard practices. Therefore, the Order holistically declined in competence.

In comparison, reconstituted ancient Sith Empire embraced the philosophy of 'survival of the fittest' and encouraged cutthroat competition towards this end. Ancient Sith were free to develop new powers and/or rediscover secrets of the past. They also had the option to settle their longstanding disputes in a fair manner via Kaggath system (for the honorable types). Unfortunately, internal rivalries and politics eventually got the better of them during the Great Galactic War; otherwise, they were really close to defeating a vastly superior enemy in terms of available resources.

Rule of Two Sith also adopted the merits of ancient Sith but decided against training legions of quality Sith due to threat of rivalry and backstabbing.

Bane's around TCW Maul level. I can't see him being outright better in categories other than Force knowledge.

And the Brotherhood of Darkness is indeed the weakest Sith Order we know of.

You must have a low opinion of Maul if you think he's near Bane's level