Exar Kun and Ulic vs Zakuul Gauntlet

Started by Selenial3 pages

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Arcann is a match for Exar Kun, he won't win, but he is a match. So if Thexan is anywhere near his brothers ability, Kun is going to be overwhelmed.

However Vaylin's defeat at the hands of Senya, suggests Ulic will give her an ass-whooping, so it really depends on who goes down first. But they could very well stop there.

The fact that they stop at 7 should be pretty obvious, frankly I have Revan Reborn above or at least equal to Exar Kun, so Kun's going to get pwned even harder than he did. Ulic is a footnote.

Why is Senya beating Vaylin a bad showing for Vaylin instead of a good showing for Senya? Just curious, she's implied to be pretty ****ing solid...

Originally posted by Nephthys Sidious did one-shot Dooku actually.

Obviously Dooku is going to resist Sidious with his full power. 😬


Yoda not Force pwning him isn't because he can't (though offense isn't his bag), he didn't try to.

Right, he endangered the lives of Anakin and Obi Wan, and enabled the deadliest galactic war in history, because he wanted to fight Dooku for the lolz. 👆

Heck, even if he just doesn't want to kill Dooku, he's more likely to do so by slipping through his guard in a duel than by ragdolling him.


But yeah, retarded.

Softball arguments, as usual.

Cuz Dooku just gets off on being choked?

"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."
- Yoda, Empire Strikes Back.

:I

Originally posted by Selenial
Why is Senya beating Vaylin a bad showing for Vaylin instead of a good showing for Senya? Just curious, she's implied to be pretty ****ing solid...
Well I don't doubt her skills, but I do doubt she's better than Ulic, especially considering she's stated to be less powerful than Arcann + Vaylin as children and considering Ulic stalemate Kun in combat.

Still, Vaylin actually did last some time.

Arcann, Theron + Vaylin combined.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Cuz Dooku just gets off on being choked?

It's called cost-benefit analysis, idiot. If he tries to resist or fight back, what do you think would happen to him?


"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."
- Yoda, Empire Strikes Back.

Funny, I seem to recall him Force pushing Darth Sidious and squads of clone troopers in RotS, and tossing Dooku's lightning back at him in AotC. It's almost like self-defense doesn't count as attack. 😬

He'd stop being choked, not that he could actually stop it. Sidious ragdolled Maul + Savage, he can ragdoll Dooku.

You want an explanation for why Yoda didn't ragdoll Dooku, Yoda literally says why not. Knocking people out and pushing someone over a desk are hardly aggressive moves.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Arcann, Theron + Vaylin combined.
Meh, still kids.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He'd stop being choked, not that he could actually stop it.

Then Sidious would f*ck up him even harder. Children who get beaten by their parents typically don't fight back. Kids being bullied by much larger kids typically don't either. Just because you fight back against Tempest doesn't mean this is common behavior.


Sidious ragdolled Maul + Savage, he can ragdoll Dooku.

Dooku > Maul + Savage.


You want an explanation for why Yoda didn't ragdoll Dooku, Yoda literally says why not. Knocking people out and pushing someone over a desk are hardly aggressive moves.

Nice job ignoring my response - Yoda knocks plenty of people out with the Force, like red guards and clone troopers. If he could've saved trillions of lives by just slamming Dooku against the ceiling, he would've. Heck, he tosses Dooku's lightning back at him. 🙄

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Potentially 6, definitely 7.

Unfortunate that you experienced the hell that is an RTC

Originally posted by Nephthys
Arcann, Theron + Vaylin combined.

Vaylin was a goddamned vegetable, so she really doesn't count anyway.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Then Sidious would f*ck up him even harder. Children who get beaten by their parents typically don't fight back. Kids being bullied by much larger kids typically don't either. Just because you fight back against Tempest doesn't mean this is common behavior.

So you admit Sidious could have ****ed him up with the Force regardless of Dooku's effort? Nice.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Dooku > Maul + Savage.

Pffffffffffffffft! Dooku is a bit more powerful than Maul alone. Dooku sure didn't seem to be > Maul and Savage when Savage started choking him and Ventress at the same time. 🙂

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Nice job ignoring my response - Yoda knocks plenty of people out with the Force, like red guards and clone troopers. If he could've saved trillions of lives by just slamming Dooku against the ceiling, he would've. Heck, he [b]tosses Dooku's lightning back at him. 🙄 [/B]

Yoda isn't going to beat Dooku unconscious with the Force. He'd need to get pretty aggressive and violent to manage that, which he won't do for philosophical and sentimental reasons. Yoda obviously knew Dooku could handle his own dang lightning, geez. 🙄

Yoda could have saved hundreds or thousands from Ventress if he's not been such a twit in episode 1 of the CW and actually subdued her. The narrative of the PT is that Yoda is wildly incompetent and his hubris leads to disaster. Windu also notes that he could have stopped Dooku in AotC but didn't out of sentimentality.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So you admit Sidious could have ****ed him up with the Force regardless of Dooku's effort? Nice.

Are you actually this dense? Sidious is significantly deadlier than Dooku, and so could f*ck him up in any number of ways. This does not mean that you can put him unarmed against an armed Dooku and another armed near-Dooku combatant and be confident in his odds. Actually, it's more accurate to put an unarmed Sidious against Vader and Starkiller; I would bet on the team in that scenario.


Pffffffffffffffft! Dooku is a bit more powerful than Maul alone. Dooku sure didn't seem to be > Maul and Savage when Savage started choking him and Ventress at the same time. 🙂

Yeah, and Maul also fought Sidious evenly for a few seconds, so that must mean that he's beyond Yoda. 🙄

Generally speaking Dooku is far above Maul, given that Dooku can fend off RotS Anakin (who is significantly stronger than season 5 Anakin) and Obi Wan at the same time, kick the former away and then ragdoll the latter.


Yoda isn't going to beat Dooku unconscious with the Force. He'd need to get pretty aggressive and violent to manage that, which he won't do for philosophical and sentimental reasons. Yoda obviously knew Dooku could handle his own dang lightning, geez. 🙄

Funny, Yoda murdered plenty of clones with the Force, knocked Sidious on his ass, and knocked out those two red guards cold, as I just pointed out.


Yoda could have saved hundreds or thousands from Ventress if he's not been such a twit in episode 1 of the CW and actually subdued her. The narrative of the PT is that Yoda is wildly incompetent and his hubris leads to disaster. Windu also notes that he could have stopped Dooku in AotC but didn't out of sentimentality.

Comparing Sidious/Yoda to Dooku is geing generous anyway. It's more accurate to compare Sidious and Vader, since Sidious > Valkorion and IMHO Exar >= Vader.

Scores of Knights of Zakuul were close to overwhelming Outlander, Lana Beniko and even Senya during chapter 5....

👆

Luke could still solo them all TUF style.

Yeh well there were a lot more than twenty and more importantly Exar Kun is far more powerful than the Outlander, whom himself is the only one comparable to Ulic on that list.

Kun arguably would just choke the Knights out.

Because Exar's TK is great enough to suggest he can choke any force user out, lmao

His drained spirit was choking out a melded team of powerful Jedi, consisting of Kam Solusar, Dorsk 81, Streen, Brakiss, Tionne Solusar, Kirana Ti, Cilghal, Jacen Solo, and Jaina Solo. All of whom were empowering each other with a meld, that was the only thing saving them.

He cleans house with generic Zakuul Knights.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Contrary to TOR wankers er, popular belief, there have not been any omniscient sources to confirm that Vitiate is more powerful than any Sith preceding him. Even if we consider the TOR encyclopedia to be third person omniscient, being more powerful does not mean that you are a deadlier overall combatant, and so there is still room to debate the issue.

TOR Encyclopedia is the "definitive guide" of galactic history up to the point of SWTOR original stories.

Definitive: (of a conclusion or agreement) done or reached decisively and with authority.

Moreover:

The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen.

From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "The Emperor's Fallen Jedi (Knight)."😉

I suppose that you take all sources about Palpatine at face value. Then why such double-standards for Vitiate? Not liking a character is acceptable and a matter of personal choice but outright dismissing official information about the same character is not an ethical stance to adopt in debates. Even some trolls do not stoop to such level.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Valkorion takes credit for many feats that demonstrate a potent understanding of various dark side rituals and sorcery, but his actual combative demonstrations are scarce, and those which exist are almost always on some sort of Force nexus.

Vitiate's actual combative demonstrations are scarce? Care to enlighten?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He has easily beaten a strike team of four featless Jedi,

Tol Braga is not featless:

Tol Braga stalemated a member of the Dark Council as well; this conflict lasted 3 days (the longest confrontation I am aware of).

Keep in mind that the Emperor's Wrath found Hero of Tython as the Jedi's finest earlier (before confrontation with Vitiate). Hero of Tython definitely became the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy during the events of Act III.

Therefore among the members of the Jedi Strike Team, two are confirmed powerhouses.

SWTOR original stories are not feats-centric adventures. You won't come across many characters with impressive showings under their belt in the original stories because that will be too much (unnecessary) content to create and developers do not have that much time. Therefore, power-scaling approach becomes necessary to figure out capabilities of protagonists.

I cannot say much about Leeha Narezz and Warren Sedoru but they are also officially counted among the most powerful Jedi of the Order. Therefore, it is safe to assume that they would have decent Force abilities. Sedoru, in particular, had the ability to read the minds of others.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
and has one-shotted some marginally powerful characters like Darth Marr,

Darth Marr is marginally powerful? 😂

Darth Marr is among the most successful members of the Dark Council in galactic history and his combat prowess is stated to be second to none. He 'easily' defeated (officially powerful) Darth Lachris in a confrontation [intended to test her abilities]. Darth Lachris would go on to become the greatest assassin of her era and would not taste defeat until she meets Emperor's Wrath II.

Read the entire account here: http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20150205

About Darth Lachris

A powerful Sith Lord with a despotic temperament, Darth Lachris has never failed in war. Her successes in the Empire’s battles have brought her to Balmorra, where she faces the challenge of putting down a resistance that has remained one step ahead of the military since the fight for the planet began. Darth Lachris is sharp and wary, expecting a scheme behind every action her enemies take. Trained by Dark Council member Darth Marr, she is a warrior at heart with an embittered understanding of political necessity–and a lust for all the galaxy’s bloody pleasures.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
but that's about it.

Really?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
What has he actually done off-nexus that makes people think him to be so deadly as a combatant?

1. Confrontation with the Jedi Strike Team led by Master Tol Braga took place on a space station.

So there's that.

2. Valkorion one-shotted Darth Marr in another setting in space; the Eternal Throne.

3. Valkorion downed scores of Starships with his powers in a setting known as the Asylum; a skyport located in the atmosphere of a gas giant.

Therefore, I don't see the reason to assume that Valkorion is not potent in a neutral setting.

If we start scrutinizing characters using your logic then many characters have some questionable showings including Palpatine.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Indeed, his performance in the Revan novel, although before his prime, elucidates just how awful of a fighter he is, getting disarmed by a saber throw from the Exile that allegedly would've killed him had she aimed for his body,

1. A Lightsaber-throw attack can kill any (human-like) living being.

2. Vitiate was preoccupied with Revan; Meetra Surik took advantage of the circumstances at hand.

Every character (including Abeloth) have a share of embarrassing moments. But you only single Vitiate out among them. This is another sign of double-standards.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
getting knocked on his ass by Revan, etc.

😬

Revan sent an entire Strike Team packing across the arena with his telekinetic powers. Those on the receiving end included Satele Shan, Darth Marr and Lana Beniko. Revan is among the most capable telekinetics of the mythos.

Revan had a nearly oneness-like moment when he sent Vitiate packing across the hall. And Vitiate was caught off-guard during this moment.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
This is hardly surprising; Valkorion has pretty much no experience having to actually fight people who are on remote parity with him, and when he does, he usually loses.

Examples?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Did I mention he was scared of Freedon Nadd, who Exar Kun is far more powerful than?

Where it is stated that Vitiate was scared of Freedon Nadd? It would be opposite.

Vitiate entrapped many spirits inside the Jedi Temple and siphoned their energy to fuel his own.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Exar Kun, meanwhile, is able to put Luke into a coma, and he does this as a spirit - which, as confirmed by the author, is weaker than his flesh form even when taking into account Yavin's nexus. He also has the aid of Kyp, but it's stated that Exar is only able to access "some" of his powers with him, and Kyp himself notes that his Force abilities with respect to sensing are feeble compared to Exar's, so the evidence points towards full power Exar > spirit Exar + Kyp. He also does this right after having helped Kyp lift the sun crusher out of the gravity well of a gas giant, which is stated to have tired him. This is a later version of the Luke, mind you, who defeats the reborn Emperor in a lightsaber duel. On their first encounter, the reborn Palpatine comments that Luke could give him a tough fight [albeit lose].

This alone is a far greater combat feat than anything Valkorion has ever done, given that he relies heavily on everyone else being far weaker than him, along with prep, rituals and nexuses.


Good to see your newfound appreciation of Exar Kun.

Now, Vitiate is more powerful and masterful in the ways of the Force then Exar Kun. So do you really think that Vitiate cannot defeat Luke Skywalker? I'd say he can.