The way I interpreted the text was that they weren't twisting and diving around the shrapnel and debris from the cruiser, but from other things Dooku hurled at them. Given how easy it was for him to throw the "cruiser", and this is the only feat of this magnitude we have for him, it seems more reasonable that the "cruiser" was <100m
Originally posted by SunRazer
Again, it's not following the Anaxes War College system.
Does it matter? They've also compared Xim's ship and classified it as just a heavy cruiser in size, so I don't see why we can't use that system. It's not like it's really changing the size, just the classification.
Originally posted by Tondemonai
The way I interpreted the text was that they weren't twisting and diving around the shrapnel and debris from the cruiser, but from other things Dooku hurled at them. Given how easy it was for him to throw the "cruiser", and this is the only feat of this magnitude we have for him, it seems more reasonable that the "cruiser" was <100m
Dooku is not stated as having hurled anything else at them. The preceding paragraph talks about the cruiser smashing into the wall, and then it immediately says "vehicle parts began to fall like rain" which seems to me to be a pretty clear indication that it was parts of the cruiser that were falling.
And yeah, the most reasonable and seemingly most agreeable figure would be around 75m. On reconsideration, 215m wouldn't just be on Vader's level; it'd be well above Vader-tier, which makes no sense.
Well, Starkiller's showing was achieved with maximum effort, IIRC. For Vader to hurl a larger ship near-effortlessly whilst being in a completely different room would require him to be a cut above Starkiller, not just rivalling him.
Also, if you word it as "half of 300m", that just seems like a deliberate attempt to step up the feat in comparison to Dooku's. Just call it a 150m ship (it was actually the smaller half, too).
Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, Starkiller's showing was achieved with maximum effort, IIRC. For Vader to hurl a larger ship near-effortlessly whilst being in a completely different room would require him to be a cut above Starkiller, not just rivalling him.
1. It wasn't maximum effort.
2. Vader isn't just rivaling Starkiller he shits on him.
3. Hurling a ship is so hilariously outclassed by pulverizing it that I can't even fathom how you can make such a comparison in the first place.
1. Doesn't the text say he let out everything? What proves it wasn't maximum effort?
2. Based on what?
3. Just "hurling a ship" is a pretty conservative way of putting it. He hurled the ship into the wall with enough force to reduce it or at least parts of it into shrapnel. And again, he did it easily and from a completely different room.
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Doesn't the text say he let out everything? What proves it wasn't maximum effort?2. Based on what?
3. Just "hurling a ship" is a pretty conservative way of putting it. He hurled the ship into the wall with enough force to reduce it or at least parts of it into shrapnel. And again, he did it easily and from a completely different room.
1. Because in one moment he noticed Juno, in the next he pulverized the ship. He had no time whatsoever to gather power for it to be max effort.
2. Based on Vader ragdolling his ass, based on Vader beating him while holding back, based on quotes and accolades, based on the Witwer interview.
3. That's still a far cry from blowing something into a billion pieces.
1. Charging up powers and max effort are different things. I meant max effort in the moment, basically. He was pouring all he could into the attack; that's a far cry from Dooku easily moving the vehicles.
2. Well, if we assume Starkiller is similar to Galen, then he's done the ragdolling to Vader as well, IIRC. When did Vader beat him? He lost in TFU II, although he was holding back. And which accolades put Vader so high that he shits on Starkiller?
3. Maybe, but that's why Dooku did "so easily" and from a different room. Remember he also affected a larger ship than Starkiller's by a full 65m.
Not to mention he later smashes said ship together with several others and moves the entire mass around, still easily. If the first feat doesn't match Starkiller's, the second one definitely does, if not surpasses it.
1. No they are not lmao, Dooku had to gather power to simply push Kenobi.
2. Yeah in TFU I, when Vader underestimated him and got Dun Möch'd on top if it, hardly comperable to Vader humiliating him whenever he pleases.
Remember how Starkiller "faked" being defeated so that Vader would lower his guard? Yeah well that wasn't faking:
Blow after blow rained on him, forcing him back. There had to be a way to free himself and avenge Juno at the same time... but a
stalemate seemed unavoidable. Any move he made was sure to lead him to an indefensible position.
Then it occurred to him. An indefensible position was exactly what he needed.
He lunged. Darth Vader saw him coming and swiped with unbearable strength, sending Starkiller's left lightsaber flying in pieces.
Starkiller lunged again, and his right lightsaber joined his left. He fell back, beaten, and stared up at his former Master.
--The Force Unleashed II
3. Why are you lying? http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t640353.html
1. Nowhere is it said that he had to gather power to push Kenobi. When he did gather power, a negligible fraction of that power was enough to send Obi-Wan flying. Earlier on in the novel, Obi-Wan is helpless against Dooku placing him in a bind, and that was without any noted gathering of power. And clearly Dooku didn't gather power to choke Obi-Wan, or else the attack wouldn't be sudden (or else Obi-Wan is just shit 🙂).
2. Right before that he notes that a stalemate was unavoidable, lol. And he was faking because he was trying to go for an indefensible position.
3. I know Tyranus didn't manipulate 215m ships. The discussion was based around me saying that it makes sense because if the feat was actually 215m ships, it would be above Vader. If you paid attention to what we were discussing instead of sticking your head in like you would through a pillory, you'd know that.
4. Doesn't seem like a character opinion to me. It's just a way of describing him drawing on the Force, and it could also be that using the Force on Korriban was just a more palpable effect (Tyranus did leave behind pools of darkness). He clearly didn't need to gather power to simultaneously shock and ragdoll Anakin in AotC.
1. What the hell are you rambling about? Yes he had to gather power, it doesn't matter how much he used of it. The point is if you need to gather power for something as basic as a push then certainly you'd need to do it to blow apart a freaking ship.
On the other hand all you have in support of max effort is this:
Besides, anything was possible. Dying, as he had thought once before, always seemed to bring out the best in him.
Which is f-ucking hilarious.
2. And then he contradicts it by saying anything he does leads him to defeat. And he didn't need to try to go for an indefensible position since anything he could've done would result in just that. Holy shit Nova 😬
3. Sorry, I should've remembered you like to discuss irrelevant shit.
4. Yeah...no. This doesn't sound like just drawing on the force at all: "He felt the dark side of the Force grow and gather." And what do you base it on that he didn't gather power in AotC?
Well it wasn't an opinion, but it was the deduction of an unreliable person. Since Dooku as you said wasn't in the room, all Kenobi saw that the ships moved easily, that doesn't mean Dooku didn't gather and exert much power to move them.
1. He doesn't "need" to gather power is my point. He just did in that scenario. I already gave you other examples when he Choked Obi-Wan without palpably gathering power. As for Starkiller, can I have the quote for him doing the busting? I seem to remember him actually putting everything he had into it, but I guess I'm wrong.
2. Well, no, that's not intended as a contradiction, since it isn't him realising something new (as opposed to the next paragraph) but rather expanding on the previous point, which was about a stalemate. Terrible writing all the same, though. And how is lightsaber dueling supposed to be relevant to my point, which is telekinetic power?
3. Your fault. 🙂
4. Nobody senses anything, for one. The fact that Anakin is clearly surprised by the attack would be another.
5. If it's an author perspective as opposed to a character opinion, why would it be unreliable?