IMPORTANT: Ha, suck it PT Brigade.

There's an actually a much easier way to go about this and that's to interpret any quote/statement in a fashion that renders the least amount of contradictions. Obviously, if we are to conclude that Bane is literally more powerful and knowledgeable than anyone who has come before, that raises a great deal of contradictions and makes the Bane a complete numbskull throughout the Bane trilogy. Who needs the rule of two when you've got nigh-immortality like Vitiate's and force-drain capabilities like Nihilus? There are much smarter ways to get revenge on the Jedi and rule the galaxy as opposed hoping that no Sith apprentice ever ends the rule of two in the fashion Vader did.

On the other hand, if if we to take that quote as a reflection of non-legends characters, a retcon (in case future discussions should be premised on pre and post-retcon versions of these characters), unquantifiable puffery or simply, as Palpatine would put it, a different "point of view" on what constitutes power and knowledge (something future writers are welcome to clarify on), the Bane Trilogy makes sense, as do subsequent works.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
For one, I'm assuming Karpyshyn's relationship with the publisher is the same as other authors.

I doubt they would do things differently depending on the author.

Because...? It's entirely a matter of the author's initiative. It's not like Karpyshyn was forced to go with a blurb, and Luceno probably has the same ability to question anything he doesn't like.

If that isn't the case, Karpyshyn is all we have to go off anyway, so we should use it for reference until further notice.

KEK, no. If it doesn't give us information, it doesn't give us information.

Given the blurbs featured absolutely no consulting, it's obvious that the Twitter one featured more, otherwise, like I said, they couldn't have made the claim.

Or they made the claim based on their own perspective/opinion, just like the back blurb. 👆

The blurbs didn't require connections and understanding with the author to write it. The twitter response did, otherwise they wouldn't have known if the authors considered SWTOR or not.

See above.

The two quotes are different (one is creating an independent quote, the other is clarifying a pre-existing quote), and thus due to the inherit distinction between the two, I consider one and not the other.

If they wielded the same nature, you and Beni would have a point. But they don't.

My question of why publishers don't have any creative license went conveniently ignored in your reply. 👆

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
There's an actually a much easier way to go about this and that's to interpret any quote/statement in a fashion that renders the least amount of contradictions.

This is true, though from the Vader vs. Revan thread, Ant doesn't really like this basic principle of empiricism.

Obviously, if we are to conclude that Bane is literally more powerful and knowledgeable than anyone who has come before, that raises a great deal of contradictions and makes the Bane a complete numbskull throughout the Bane trilogy. Who needs the rule of two when you've got nigh-immortality like Vitiate's and force-drain capabilities like Nihilus?

Well, to be fair Bane had to hide from the Jedi, and he didn't have 8000 sith to replicate Nathema with.

There are much smarter ways to get revenge on the Jedi and rule the galaxy as opposed hoping that no Sith apprentice ever ends the rule of two in the fashion Vader did.

On the other hand, if if we to take that quote as a reflection of non-legends characters, a retcon (in case future discussions should be premised on pre and post-retcon versions of these characters), unquantifiable puffery or simply, as Palpatine would put it, a different "point of view" on what constitutes power and knowledge (something future writers are welcome to clarify on), the Bane Trilogy makes sense, as do subsequent works.

Yeah, I don't actually think Bane is more powerful than Valkorion. But I do buy that Plagueis > Vitiate. It both goes without contradicting any other source material and fits thematically with Plagueis/Sidious's positions in the mythos.

Opinion isn't required to answer the question if SWTOR is being recognized in the material or not. So no. 😬

It both goes without contradicting any other source material and fits thematically with Plagueis/Sidious's positions in the mythos.

No source material contradicts it and it fits thematically with Revan's position as the poster-boy of the pre-TPM EU.

I would be, but hasbro toys has no relation to any canon material whatsoever, so no. And like the Bane quote; or rather, even more so, what you're referring to can be interpreted in a number of ways.

It's not Hasbro toys. It's by the company that publishes the sourcebooks like KotOR campaign guide or the Legacy campaign guide.

Is it an official publication by the company, or a freelance article by one of the writers?

EDIT: Looking at your RT, it's from Wizards of the Coast. I never really understood their place in the grand scheme of things, largely because their site has been down since the beginning of time.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Opinion isn't required to answer the question if SWTOR is being recognized in the material or not. So no. 😬

Actually, the account answered the question using the reasoning that TOR wasn't canon, .ie whoever made the post didn't understand the Legends/Canon continuity, which as Tempest demonstrated still has TOR as a part of Legends.

It's therefore possible that the Twitter account did not consult the author and instead tried to answer using its understanding of policy, or even that the authors themselves got the policy wrong.

Do you also readily accept Revan being the most powerful Sith Lord in history, sans Solo and Palpatine, as of like pre-2010?

No source material contradicts it and it fits thematically with Revan's position as the poster-boy of the pre-TPM EU.

What published literature says that?

Regardless, any conclusion of that nature would have us return the value that Palpatine (and likely Plagueis before) is still the strongest using the precedents in evidence that it sets, and from powerscaling we can wank the PT just as hard. So I'll wait and see what you're referring to.

I think it's either from an online article or the back of some package. The quote reads:

"The Star Wars universe has created some truly vile dark side villains. Have you ever wondered what would happen if the most powerful Sith Lords duked it out for supremacy of the galaxy?"

IIRC It's in reference to some pack of cards or something which include 3 factions; one lead by Sidious, another by Caedus, another by Revan.

@Sasukedc: The latter, but what's the difference to the point I'm trying to make here?

Both the Wizard of the Coast articles and Fact Files only connection with legitimate canon material is that they are "used under authorization" of LucasArts.

It's published on a website that's been approved of by LucasArts, just as Fact Files are approved by LucasArts to make the content.

I doubt either are being run through by canon heads to ensure the content is accurate.

That doesn't necessarily mean that those are numbers 1, 2 and 3. If you go to the Olympics somebody might say that you're getting to see the best in the world; that doesn't mean that all of the n Olympians present cover the range of 1-n in the world, with no missed spots.

And it would also leave us to conclude that Darth Revan > Vitiate, and combining it with other sources, that Sidious > Darth Revan > Vitiate, which helps me.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

I doubt either are being run through by canon heads to ensure the content is accurate.

> brags about finding a quote all over Google hangout
> argues that the quote is illegitimate
> brags about how he "won" the "Bane wars" by discrediting his own quote

Again, the allusions to KotOR Revan's story are scary. Like, Tempest's Palpatine persona scary.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Sasukedc: The latter, but what's the difference to the point I'm trying to make here?

Well, it's the difference between officially published content like Plagueis, and something that's not like the Wizards of the Coast article. Your point, that both have to be taken seriously if one is, is invalid for that reason. While I personally consider the information in the same way I would a Drew or Avellone quote, it has no canonical basis and therefore doesn't hold the same weight in a debate. Ellimist would be perfectly right to ignore it, and still use the Plagueis quote.

Conversely, your argument in this thread is that some guy involved with the publishing company has a say on the content of the fact file. Which would be fine, if you didn't outright reject official material like the back cover of Plagueis because it wasn't directly written by the author. Yours is a double standard, unlike the example above.

Do you see the difference between the two examples, here? Why it works one way, and not the other?

I'm comparing Wizards of the Coast to the Fact Files, not Wizards of the Coast to Darth Plagueis.

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I explained why I found one to work and not the other, regardless if you disagree.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
There's an actually a much easier way to go about this and that's to interpret any quote/statement in a fashion that renders the least amount of contradictions. Obviously, if we are to conclude that Bane is literally more powerful and knowledgeable than anyone who has come before, that raises a great deal of contradictions and makes the Bane a complete numbskull throughout the Bane trilogy. Who needs the rule of two when you've got nigh-immortality like Vitiate's and force-drain capabilities like Nihilus?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

I explained why I found one to work and not the other, regardless if you disagree.

😐 This sentence could be applied to every argument anyone ever made here, lol.

BTW no disrespect intended, but I'm calling you supa hot fire from now on. 🙂

I mean, this isn't even a debate on something that applies to the forum as a whole (I already won that one), just my personal standards, which has always been different from the masses.

Oh, I have no idea about the legitimacy of the fact files.

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Unfortunately, covering your ears and saying it's my opinion is no way to debate; much less debate and claim that you've won.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
(I already won that one)

Of course you did, supa. You were so good, you were even able to ignore entire posts and arguments and still win by believing in yourself!. 😆

Spoiler:
The point that supa hot ant has literally refused to even respond to for the last several pages is that he's trying to masturbate to himself discrediting his own quote!

@Sasukedc: It's really just my opinion versus your own at this stage. You haven't presented legitimate facts to support a lack of distinction either.

I claim I won because the Darth Bane quote is now null. We are merely debating the implications of this on me personally, which I won't apply anyway.