Meetra Surik: How powerful is each of her iterations?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Saying that Meetra is above Kenobi because he can't replicate her circumstantial feats are pretty ridiculous when you consider that Meetra can't stomp Grievous or beat RotS Anakin or Maul & Savage 😬

Que?

How are you basing the fact Meetra can't take on Grievous, beat a circumstantial RotS Anakin, or circumstantially beat Maul and Savage?

See, I'm basing Kenobi not being able to replicate her feats on:

- The fact most Jedi couldn't even survive traversing Malachor without falling to the Dark Side.
- The fact Kenobi has been man handled by Dooku, whereas Traya on a Dark Side Nexus could not overwhelm Surik with Telekinesis.
- The fact she was one of the few Jedi to reach enlightenment, which according to the Prima guide increased her Speed, Strength and Stamina to the highest levels achievable.
- The opinion that Kenobi lacks the stamina to replicate any part of her feat on Malachor.

... among other things. Whereas you're basing Surik not being able to replicate Kenobi's accomplishments on what, a lack of accolades given a lack of exploration? How highly you arbitrarily rank Traya and Sion as duelists? How weakened you think Nihilus was after his failure to drain Surik?

As one sided as it may be, Kenobi is explored in far greater detail than Surik is, so it's far easier to place him in her shoes than the other way around. Countering Kenobi's inability to replicate her feats with you believing she can't replicate his, doesn't quite work in the same way. We never saw Wound!Surik's limits, but we've seen Kenobi's.

Though I'm not saying she's his better in every way. I doubt she's a better duelist, etc. Just that I think holistically she edges him out.

Give Kenobi a Wound in the Force and a Force Bond with Kreia and I think he could. And he lacks stamina feats now? Someone should read The Cestus Deception.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Give Kenobi a Wound in the Force and a Force Bond with Kreia and I think he could. And he lacks stamina feats now? Someone should read The Cestus Deception.

Give Surik Sidious tier force pools and she'd be rivaling Yoda. What ridiculous logic.

And I've read The Cestus Deception, don't get cocky kid. Her stamina feat is far superior 👆

Originally posted by Selenial
Give Surik Sidious tier force pools and she'd be rivaling Yoda. What ridiculous logic.

That's hardly the same. We were talking about circumstances. Take away Meetra's Wound and her Bond and she wouldn't have survived Malachor V either.

Originally posted by Selenial
And I've read The Cestus Deception, don't get cocky kid. Her stamina feat is far superior 👆

Because? Fighting an equal of yourself for hours > fighting trash for hours.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
That's hardly the same. We were talking about circumstances. Take away Meetra's Wound and her Bond and she wouldn't have survived Malachor V either.

Except her wound is a permanent feature, and nothing suggests her bond was aiding her whatsoever. In fact, seeing as Traya planned to kill Surik should she not pass the trial alone, the notion that Traya was aiding her is utterly farcical.

Because? Fighting an equal of yourself for hours > fighting trash for hours.

Sparring with an equal of yourself < fighting through Storm Beasts, hundreds of Sith Assassins, Darth Sion four times and Darth Traya twice on one of the strongest Dark Side Nexuses in the galaxy...

Originally posted by Selenial
Except her wound is a permanent feature, and nothing suggests her bond was aiding her whatsoever. In fact, seeing as Traya planned to kill Surik should she not pass the trial alone, the notion that Traya was aiding her is utterly farcical.

Except the Wound protected her from Malachor V, otherwise she's only Revan Scourge level on a dark side nexus, who was struggling with droids 😬

Originally posted by Selenial
Sparring with an equal of yourself < fighting through Storm Beasts, hundreds of Sith Assassins, Darth Sion four times and Darth Traya twice on one of the strongest Dark Side Nexuses in the galaxy...

Trash, trash, trash, and Traya. Yep totally beyond Kenobi's stamina.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Except the Wound protected her from Malachor V, otherwise she's only Revan Scourge level on a dark side nexus, who was struggling with droids 😬

Source 🙂 🙂 🙂

Trash, trash, trash, and Traya.

Nice debating there, some truly solid work.

Originally posted by Selenial
Source 🙂 🙂 🙂

Don't make me go through all those threads back in swtor.com where you and Beni, and Aurb were saying the exact same thing to make sense of Meetra.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Don't make me go through all those threads back in swtor.com where you and Beni, and Aurb were saying the exact same thing to make sense of Meetra.

That her wound gave her power, yes. I can't attest to what I've said in the past regarding her wound and Malachor, but there's nothing to indicate that.

Even if her wound did such a thing, she still had to deal with crushing gravity (without the aid of the Dark Side like the Trayus academy had) and the echoes of screaming Jedi and Republic soldiers that rang through her head the entire time she was on the surface. Negative emotions effect a Jedi's ability to call on the force you know, and she still did what she did.

Welp two debates are now going on.

Sel thoughts on what I've said? Do try to be nice as my mind is always open to change

What crushing gravity?? According to the guide, Malachor V has standard gravity, nothing crushing about it.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
What crushing gravity?? According to the guide, Malachor V has standard gravity, nothing crushing about it.

"There is a world on the outer rim surrounded by mass shadows. Past the graveyard of Mandalorian warships this planet suffers. Crushed in gravity's fist. To walk on it's surface is to feel it crushing every cell of your being. It is like being buried alive until it seems you will never breathe again."

"Traversing it's surface had been agony. Mentally, she had still sensed the anguish of all who had lost their lives there. Physically, the intense gravity of the world had held her in its crushing grip, leaving her gasping for breath. It had been the most awful and horrific experience of her life."

Seems contradicting to the Guide, but w/e. I'm surprised the remote, GO-TO, HK and the Exile's party were able to survive such crushing gravity then.

^Comical Zoltan logic, as usual.

Her wound wasn't some miracle maker, she still felt all the deaths and the crushing gravity well. Which by the way made her severely physically and mentally ill whilst having to use breath control the entire time she fought Storm Beasts due to gas geysers in the surface.

Then she fought the most elite of Darth Revan's elite assassin cult, of which Atton Rand was a low tier. An entire legion of them, all of them amped by a geyser of dark side energy.

THEN she fought Darth Sion, the most elite swordsman of all the Sith Assassins, defeating soundly in four rounds whilst he was amprd and constantly regenerating.

THEN she fought Darth Traya, an easily Dooku tier Force user, and defeated her twice.

You can't just call them trash, appeal to Kenobi's vast exposure and expect anybody to take that as anything but desperation on your part.

Meetra Surik is a legendary Jedi alongside Revan, she's famed for her achievements even in SWTOR and Drew considers her likely more skilled than Revan himself.

You peopld lowball the living shit out of her over Darth Nyriss being physically superior on a potent dark side nexus after Meetra had suffered on Nathema, stated to have effected her far worse than Malachor V had. Then she takes it upon herself to not get any form of rest or sleep until a few hours with Revan and Lord Scourge prior to attacking the Sith Emperor. Six whole days later, after facing Darth Nyriss.

If you seriously believe Meetra was fighting in her full capacity when nearly physically and mentally broken before taking five days with no rest or sustenance, then you're hopeless.

Lord Scourge is not on Surik's level at all in the novel, Scourge gets taken out by one swipe of Nyriss' blade, whereas Meetra is stated to hold her ground in the duel but was physically pushed down to a knee by Nyriss' ferocity, which conveniently is something Scourge can gorge off. Against the Imperial Guards, Revan took one out, Scourge took Yarri and one other, then Meetra took four down single-handed.

Lord Scourge then gets some actual combat ecprrience with a 1,000+ Force user kills which Meetra almost certainly already had. At best Scourge grows and closes the gap as the Emperor's Wrath. Yet he stalemates Hero of Tython in a duel.

Originally posted by Selenial
Que?

How are you basing the fact Meetra can't take on Grievous, beat a circumstantial RotS Anakin, or circumstantially beat Maul and Savage?

See, I'm basing Kenobi not being able to replicate her feats on:

- The fact most Jedi couldn't even survive traversing Malachor without falling to the Dark Side.
- The fact Kenobi has been man handled by Dooku, whereas Traya on a Dark Side Nexus could not overwhelm Surik with Telekinesis.
- The fact she was one of the few Jedi to reach enlightenment, which according to the Prima guide increased her Speed, Strength and Stamina to the highest levels achievable.
- The opinion that Kenobi lacks the stamina to replicate any part of her feat on Malachor.

... among other things. Whereas you're basing Surik not being able to replicate Kenobi's accomplishments on what, a lack of accolades given a lack of exploration? How highly you arbitrarily rank Traya and Sion as duelists? How weakened you think Nihilus was after his failure to drain Surik?

As one sided as it may be, Kenobi is explored in far greater detail than Surik is, so it's far easier to place him in her shoes than the other way around. Countering Kenobi's inability to replicate her feats with you believing she can't replicate his, doesn't quite work in the same way. We never saw Wound!Surik's limits, but we've seen Kenobi's.

Though I'm not saying she's his better in every way. I doubt she's a better duelist, etc. Just that I think holistically she edges him out.

That's some class-A retardation

Originally posted by Selenial
That her wound gave her power, yes. I can't attest to what I've said in the past regarding her wound and Malachor, but there's nothing to indicate that.

Even if her wound did such a thing, she still had to deal with crushing gravity (without the aid of the Dark Side like the Trayus academy had) and the echoes of screaming Jedi and Republic soldiers that rang through her head the entire time she was on the surface. Negative emotions effect a Jedi's ability to call on the force you know, and she still did what she did.

Well she got her Wound on Malachor V, it makes sense that it would protect her from it. Especially since it's an outlier feat for her.

She had to run away from Sion on Korriban, she was stompped by the 3 masters on Dantooine, and in the Dark Side path every master put up a fight against her.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Is there any evidence that points towards Meetra's drain only increasing her strength temporarily? Granted, it makes sense given Nihilus' situation, but it also doesn't make sense given that throughout the entire game she's become progressively stronger because of it. The fact that it's continuously built upon itself points toward it being a permanent change in power.

You're totally right, it should be permanent. Nihilus' was, he just overused the ability to the point of weakening if he didn't continue to use it. And if you drain the Masters you get a permanent boost to your Force points. Vrook says that you've gotten continually stronger as you've killed hundreds.

Also the whole meta point of the ability is as a stand in for exp and leveling. The Exile is constantly growing more and more powerful by killing enemies and by bonding with others through quests. You only ever go up, those levels aren't temporary.

Because Sion was amped by Korriban and wouldn't die.

She chooses to allow them to cut her off from the Force, she didn't fight back at all.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Because Sion was amped by Korriban and wouldn't die.

She chooses to allow them to cut her off from the Force, she didn't fight back at all.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And Sion wasn't amped by the vastly greater nexus of Malachor? 😂

Except there, she literally convinced him to die mmm