Why is TOR less skilled than the PT?

Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't, it just doesn't have the things people love to wank around here like statements about how they're one of the best in history and such. The PT also has the advantage of being intensely interconnected so each character props up others by showing how they compare easily. We know Kits great because he fought GG, we know GG is great because he fought Kenobi, we know Kenobi is great because he fought Maul etc etc.

TOR lacks that. The major characters are boss fights and then die. It makes it hard to gauge them without them having that level of support and exposure.

This tbh.

If a TOR-era character is officially identified as a master swordsman, some would not think highly of him irrespective of such promotion. Lack of exposure is a problem.

BioWare did not give a damn about feats while developing vanilla stories. BioWare realized this error much later. Too late perhaps.

Let me answer the OP's question with another question:
Dooku, Anakin, Mace, Yoda, Sidious, Maul, Obi-Wan, Agen Kolar, Shaak Ti, Asajj Ventress, General Grievous and several Jedi combatants identified as some of the most skilled in history versus featless Council members, Darth Malgus, a Grandmaster who lost to a Bounty Hunter, Aryn Leneer, Satele Shan, Revan and Scourge... who would you back?

Lmao @ Shaak Ti being mentioned with Anakin, Dooku, Mace

If you can mention beings like Asajj and Agen, not sure why not Shaak. I was just randomly listing skilled Jedi.

No, you just listed a bunch of characters from the PT, then proceeded to claim all the TOR characters you listed as "featless".

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
No, you just listed a bunch of characters from the PT, then proceeded to claim all the TOR characters you listed as "featless".

He said "featless Council members" and then listed other names. He didn't say they were all featless.

I listed some of PTs top tiers and some of TORs "top tiers"... PT wins, hands down

Originally posted by MythLord
Let me answer the OP's question with another question:
Dooku, Anakin, Mace, Yoda, Sidious, Maul, Obi-Wan, Agen Kolar, Shaak Ti, Asajj Ventress, General Grievous and several Jedi combatants identified as some of the most skilled in history versus featless Council members, Darth Malgus, a Grandmaster who lost to a Bounty Hunter, Aryn Leneer, Satele Shan, Revan and Scourge... who would you back?

- Emperor's Wrath II
- Hero of Tython
- Jaric Kaedan
- Syo Bakarn
- Darth Marr
- Lord Skar

I am sure there are a large number of others in TOR era that are exceptionally skilled duelists but lacking in hype and exposure.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
No, you just listed a bunch of characters from the PT, then proceeded to claim all the TOR characters you listed as "featless".

nopity

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You missed following:

- Emperor's Wrath II
- Hero of Tython
- Jaric Kaedan
- Syo Bakarn
- Darth Marr
- Lord Skar

I am sure there are a large number of others in TOR era that are exceptionally skilled duelists but lacking in hype and exposure.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
The TOR era Jedi trained and served in a wartime environment. This left them with little room or time for experimentation and innovation in lightsabre combat, forcing them to adopt a "stick to what works" mentality. Mace Windu, Anakin etc. had the luxury of time and opportunity to try out new techniques to refine their skills. Had Mace been born in the TOR era he would never have been able to develop Vaapad.

There's also the issue of quality vs. quantity. TOR era Jedi mostly focused on battlefield engagements where they had lots of allies (both other Jedi and soldiers) to help them. PT era Jedi again had more time to focus on the subtleties of one-on-one duelling.

This is incorrect. As early as Fightsaber, it's been confirmed that the bulk of PT Jedi were focusing on diplomacy, study, and other non-violent means and hadn't fought anyone other than each other for a thousand years. Except for the truly powerful and exceptional (Mace, Yoda, and Dooku) most utilize the Diplomat's Form and suffer terribly at Geonoshia. Obi-Wan gets better with three years of war and a ton of opposition, but is still well behind the power trio mentioned.

In an Order of what was it? 10,000-15,000? We can conclusively say 3 are unrivaled masters, a handful are close (Luminara maybe, Barriss kinda, Anakin PlotDeviceWalker, Obi-Wan, and Qui-Gon sorta) and the rest are basically mooks with glowsticks.

Comparatively, TOR Jedi and Sith have a much harsher learning environment, are more exposed to real combat (Hell, even Tython is a breeding ground for danger and that's the Jedi Kindergarten) and as of the start of the base game have just fought a major war against actual lightsaber toting Sith.

Without sufficient evidence to point in either direction conclusively, it is more reasonable to assume the TOR Jedi is a better fighter than the PT Jedi, based on the circumstantial evidence of their training. The fact that you're a Jedi and alive past a certain point in TOR means you are a badass. PT Jedi died in droves to ****ing droids.

Are you Janus Marius?

You surrendered every stance you've ever taken on the PT by suggesting the closest Jedi to the top three involved Luminara Unduli and Barriss...

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Comparatively, TOR Jedi and Sith have a much harsher learning environment, are more exposed to real combat (Hell, even Tython is a breeding ground for danger and that's the Jedi Kindergarten) and as of the start of the base game have just fought a major war against actual lightsaber toting Sith.

Without sufficient evidence to point in either direction conclusively, it is more reasonable to assume the TOR Jedi is a better fighter than the PT Jedi, based on the circumstantial evidence of their training. The fact that you're a Jedi and alive past a certain point in TOR means you are a badass. PT Jedi died in droves to ****ing droids.

To support this point, in Swtore it's stated that Jedi Padawans would have more combat experience than most veteran soldiers before taking the trails.

It is also stated that before the war Jedi in training were primarily focused on core world politics over warfare and that after it padawans would often liaise with the Republic military and focus on combat. The Jedi trials also evolved to become more demanding and dangerous, while not quite being on the level of the suicide meat-grinder the Sith employed.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose

In an Order of what was it? 10,000-15,000? We can conclusively say 3 are unrivaled masters, a handful are close (Luminara maybe, Barriss kinda, Anakin PlotDeviceWalker, Obi-Wan, and Qui-Gon sorta) and the rest are basically mooks with glowsticks. droids.

Honestly, I have no idea why you're trying to paint Mace and Dooku as duelist on another plane from the likes of Obi-Wan, and Anakin—because surely that isn't the case when Ben and the emo hit their respective peaks in RotS.

Conversely, I have no idea why Luminara, or Barris, would be placed anywhere near adjacent to the top-dogs—when their accolades and showings—place them pretty firmly below the Plo's and Fisto's of the galaxy.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
We can conclusively say 3 are unrivaled masters, a handful are close (Luminara maybe, Barriss kinda

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Just cause they fight against Sith regularly doesn't mean they should be leaps and bounds above others. I mean TPM is a great example, the Jedi hadn't fought against a Sith in what....1,000 years or so?

Despite that fact, Jinn and Obi-Wan did well enough against Maul where they weren't immediately stomped into the ground. Otherwise Maul wouldn't have led them into an environment that favored him, he would have just ended them without that hassle. Same on Tatooine against Jinn.

Which the fact that they hadn't encountered such a foe for that long and yet still did that well, should actually show that the skill disparity between the TOR era and PT era hadn't waned. (If it did, it hardly matters)

Which actually makes sense, when you realize that the PT era had been training to fight against the Sith of old.

Ahem..

If Stealth Moose sees that, you are going to get completely destroyed.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
If Stealth Moose sees that, you are going to get completely destroyed.

Is it not true? It is as I recall.

Oh, I was referring to all three of you.

Seriously, he needs to be a SW Forum Mod.