Originally posted by Selenial
You surrendered every stance you've ever taken on the PT by suggesting the closest Jedi to the top three involved Luminara Unduli and Barriss...
Sarcasm is a lost art.
But you know, Plo Koon can freeze creeks so definitely he'd be able to hang in TOR.
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Honestly, I have no idea why you're trying to paint Mace and Dooku as duelist on another plane from the likes of Obi-Wan, and Anakin—because surely that isn't the case when Ben and the emo hit their respective peaks in RotS.Conversely, I have no idea why Luminara, or Barris, would be placed anywhere near adjacent to the top-dogs—when their accolades and showings—place them pretty firmly below the Plo's and Fisto's of the galaxy.
Dooku utterly toys with Anakin and Obi-Wan right up until RotS. Hell, the original RotS script outright supports that Dooku was throwing the fight and the on-screen evidence doesn't dispel the assertion. Dooku could have at any point disabled Skywalker with the Force or the almost casual bladework he was using to keep both Jedi on their toes.
Mace put Sidious on his ass and was a legitimately awesome swordsman, having mastered styles Obi and Ani couldn't claim anything other than basic proficiency in.
More to the point, Obi-Wan's solid victories are against Grievous (non-Force sensitive; useless if he doesn't ambush you) and Anakin (who he trained, who was emotionally distracted, and who nearly won several times).
Anakin, meanwhile, is the better swordsman of the two, but is rock-stupid and headstrong in many cases, and its his random bursts of Force power that overwhelm opponents, not precision and skill. The way in which Dooku undoes Obi-Wan every time and the way in which Mace pushes back against Sidious unlike everyone else (including Kit Fisto, a verified peer of Obi-Wan's as of The Cestus Deception and arguably in Obi's own POV the better fighter).
There's plenty of evidence to suggest that neophyte Skywalker and his almost-chucked-to-the-Farming-Corp master are second tier when compared to the likes of Dooku, Yoda and Mace. It's not even a contest.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Ahem..
1. Maul toyed with the two Jedi and individually they could not stand up to him. The moment they were separated, the lone Jedi was bullrushed and KO'd within seconds. This is specific example of Qui-Gon, trained by perhaps one of the greatest swordsmen of his era, being easily destroyed and his padawan winning only through PIS is not support for your assertion.
2. TOR-era Jedi are shown battling Sith and growing in strength. PT-era Jedi have not; even a Dark Jedi with limited Force mastery such as Ventress cut through Jedi Masters and renowned swordsmen with ridiculous ease (The Cestus Deception; Dark Rendezvous being two core examples).
To reiterate:
^ It says right damn there that modern Jedi aren't martially inclined on average, preferring a generic lightsaber fighting style.
The rest of the article, which I cannot locate via Google at this hour, indicates that Forms III and IV arose from the replacement of saber-to-saber combat as being Jedi concerns and instead blaster bolt deflection. This is why Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan can ward of battle droids' salvos with ease but struggle against someone who actually fights to kill.
So again, the idea that PT-era Jedi are greater than or equal to TOR-era jedi is blatantly contradicted in everything but the "IMO MUH FEELS" counter argument. And that one won't hold water.
Originally posted by Stealth MooseWhere? And Forms III and IV where developed well before the PT era?
^ It says right damn there that modern Jedi aren't martially inclined on average, preferring a generic lightsaber fighting style.The rest of the article, which I cannot locate via Google at this hour, indicates that Forms III and IV arose from the replacement of saber-to-saber combat as being Jedi concerns and instead blaster bolt deflection. This is why Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan can ward of battle droids' salvos with ease but struggle against someone who actually fights to kill.
Well that's probably it tbh, spread over the course of 10 years they could spend more time practicing other things.
Also Moosey boy I think this is what you were looking for:
Though I'd question whether this means the majority of Jedi wielded the form, otherwise surely the Clone Wars would have been a slaughter. mmm
Except Stealth, there are also sources in which the Jedi have noted to have gotten stronger and have been training to fight the last war against the Sith.
Source 1:
That had been the case with the Jedi Order. For two hundred years before the coming of Darth Sidious the power of the dark side had been gaining strength, and yet the Jedi had made only minimal efforts to thwart it. The Sith were pleased by the fact that the Jedi, too, had been allowed to grow so powerful, because, in the end, their sense of entitlement would blind them to what was occurring in their midst.—Labyrinth of Evil
and Source 2
While the Jedi-The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war.- ROTS novel
Hm...there's also the note of the Jedi Path, where by at least a Padawan, a Jedi would be a Master of 2 Lightsaber forms, Form 1 and whatever other form they choose.
Form 1 is the foundation of which the other forms build. It is not the best style for blaster deflection or lightsaber combat, but it's a superior all around form you can fall back on in combat. Thus you must demonstrate mastery of this form before you can continue.- Taken from Jedi Path
There are 7 forms of lightsaber combat. Form 1 was the focus of your training as a youngling. Padawans must extend their combat skills by mastering 1 or more of the following forms.- Taken from Jedi Path
They are also given a run through the other saber forms.
They also fight against holo Sith Lords of old in saber combat as Padawans in their Knight trials, noting that one day they could come across such a foe.
Such challenges are not meant to be unfair. All are designed to mimic challenges you may one day face if you are to serve the Order. The latest feature in the Jedi trials Chamber is a holographic projector, introduced after the victory of Ruusan capable of creating enemies from the air itself. With this tool, you might face Darth Ruin, Lord Kaan or any of the worst monsters to ever rise from the dark side.- Taken from Jedi Path
They also as Knights, study advanced lightsaber techniques.
As a Knight you should never stop learning- lightsaber techniques are no different. Every move you perfect only opens pathways to new moves. Here are a few of the more advanced moves you should study in your knighthood.
Saber Throw, Mounted Combat, Trakata and Sokan.
- Taken from Jedi Path[/QUOTE]
...So looks to me that the PT Order isn't lacking.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Except Stealth, there are also sources in which the Jedi have noted to have gotten stronger and have been training to fight the last war against the Sith.Source 1:
and Source 2
Hm...there's also the note of the Jedi Path, where by at least a Padawan, a Jedi would be a Master of 2 Lightsaber forms, Form 1 and whatever other form they choose.
They are also given a run through the other saber forms.
They also fight against holo Sith Lords of old in saber combat as Padawans in their Knight trials, noting that one day they could come across such a foe.
They also as Knights, study advanced lightsaber techniques.
As a Knight you should never stop learning- lightsaber techniques are no different. Every move you perfect only opens pathways to new moves. Here are a few of the more advanced moves you should study in your knighthood.
Saber Throw, Mounted Combat, Trakata and Sokan.
- Taken from Jedi Path
...So looks to me that the PT Order isn't lacking. [/QUOTE] 👆