Do we accept novel blurbs and publisher summaries?

Started by Beniboybling7 pages

Well anyway did a little investigation into the contexts of that Bastila quote, and found something interesting:

"In the Star Wars Miniatures Game, Bastila could be thought of as a second-tier Jedi. She's clearly not as capable as characters such as Mace Windu, Jedi Master; Yoda, Jedi Master; or Darth Vader, Jedi Hunter; but she's roughly on par with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Master or Darth Tyranus. Although her Defense and Attack are a bit low for a character of this cost, Triple Attack more than makes up for it. She also has Lightsaber Sweep and Lightsaber Deflect, again nicely fitting this second-tier niche."

https://sites.google.com/site/assfrancstarwarsmini/presentation-du-jeu/d-les-figurines/preview/set-5-champions-of-the-force/preview-6a

So essentially it's only putting Bastila on par with Kenobi and Dooku in the contexts of this game. Because they possess similar stats or abilities, but nowhere suggests this is true of actual continuity. Lmao.

Windu > Dooku tho.

Nah Windu = Dooku according to Legends sources.

Originally posted by JKBart
What's disappointing in seeing someone's failure and his way towards the darkness 🙂 🙂

Because in his prime he brought paine, agony and despiur wherever he went. Now only an hero 🙂 🙂 🙂

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well anyway did a little investigation into the contexts of that Bastila quote, and found something interesting:

"In the [b]Star Wars Miniatures Game, Bastila could be thought of as a second-tier Jedi. She's clearly not as capable as characters such as Mace Windu, Jedi Master; Yoda, Jedi Master; or Darth Vader, Jedi Hunter; but she's roughly on par with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Master or Darth Tyranus. Although her Defense and Attack are a bit low for a character of this cost, Triple Attack more than makes up for it. She also has Lightsaber Sweep and Lightsaber Deflect, again nicely fitting this second-tier niche."

https://sites.google.com/site/assfrancstarwarsmini/presentation-du-jeu/d-les-figurines/preview/set-5-champions-of-the-force/preview-6a

So essentially it's only putting Bastila on par with Kenobi and Dooku in the contexts of this game. Because they possess similar stats or abilities, but nowhere suggests this is true of actual continuity. Lmao. [/B]


Who are you to claim this game is inaacurate to the continuity, Beni?

Originally posted by Selenial
Freshest has been pretty ****ing lacklustre recently. It's been disappointing to watch his fall 🙂

Not as disappointing as it will be to see the UK's fall. uhuh

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Who are you to claim this game is inaacurate to the continuity, Beni?
*inaccurate 😉

Anyway, lol, the source states Bastila can be considered in this way within the contexts of the game, nowhere is it stated they apply to continuity at large. The burden of proof is therefore on you to prove otherwise, and considering that again this source contradicts what we know to be the truth, you'll come up empty.

There are also different versions of many miniature characters with entirely different stats.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
*inaccurate 😉

Anyway, lol, the source states Bastila can be considered in this way within the contexts of the game, nowhere is it stated they apply to continuity at large. The burden of proof is therefore on you to prove otherwise, and considering that again this source contradicts what we know to be the truth, you'll come up empty.


Bastila made a super holocron Beni. That means she was a super Jedi. She's arguably above Dooku.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not as disappointing as it will be to see the UK's fall. uhuh

https://youtu.be/8kpHK4YIwY4?t=50s

UK's citizens completing what William Wallace and George Washington started.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Aren't they? Right, well this is canon as it's defined by Leland Chee "...continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else." By everything else I mean EVERYthing else. Novels, comics, junior novels, videogames, trading card games, roleplaying games, toys, websites, television. As I've mentioned earlier, any contradictions that arise are dealt on a case-by-case."

Pretty sure publishers summaries would come under "everything", so yes they are part of the canon "as it's defined."

Beni,

C-canon is not literally defined as 'everything-everything'. There have been literal outlines as to what's considered canon, what isn't, and in what order of priority they're assorted in. These are structures that have been spelled-out before and after that statement was made. So please don't pretend to be stupid, and please don't pigeonhole the entire franchise with one of Chee's general comments. Similarly, I could meet your blatant sophistry with another equally foolhardy point - Seen as Chee gives us a nice list of what's considered 'C-canon' in that same excerpt you presented, where does he state publisher summaries come under that category? Or perhaps we could go with your personal view Beni - that everything is part of the 'canon'... so would that include the nutritional values written on the side of my Star Wars Easter egg? Anyway, as you rightly pointed out, Chee's responsible for holocroning. So he's the right person to cite on the matter. His additional statements make it clear that author views remain outside the continuum:

"In a nutshell, anything created by the author would be C-level. Anything in the the novels created by George Lucas (whether it comes from unpublished early script versions, unpublished author interviews with George, or George's revisions to the novelization manuscript) would be G-level unless contradicted by the films."

- Mr Chee himself

Author creations are considered c-level canon. Author summaries or their unofficial opinions are not. When it comes to personal notes, the only named authority is George Lucas himself.

Anyway I voted yes. Going by the above they should be treated as canon.

Then you shall also treat my Star Wars calendar as canon. Although, I can't see anything displaying the 'ABY' system of year-counting. Instead, the dates are displayed much like a Gregorian calendar with the current year being 2016. Seen as everything is 'canon' I suppose it must also be 2016 in a galaxy far far away.

and I personally find it hard to believe that a statement as specific as to state Caedus to be more powerful than Vader could be made arbitrarily and without consultance or at least vetting.

You are wrong. In fact, I'd argue that such a statement wouldn't have been vetted, seen as it was not detailed in a fictional creation and has no need to be. Going by LFL's policy of not wanting to hand out 'power-charts', it makes sense that the personal view of Caedus vs Vader is not written in an official work. It is not a fact and doesn't have to be taken as such. Jacen does not have to have a greater command of the force than his grandfather, and given his underwhelming feats, i'd say the opposite is true.

It also stands to reason that the publishers work closely with Lucasfilm, as is common when dealing with liscensed material, especially when that material has a monitored continuity.

...Perhaps? It simply means they have had a long time to think about these things. But then again, so have some of us. In the end, the publishers summaries are just a little extra perspective and views that may or may not be true. And that is all they are.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
"In a nutshell, anything created by the author would be C-level. Anything in the the novels created by George Lucas (whether it comes from unpublished early script versions, unpublished author interviews with George, or George's revisions to the novelization manuscript) would be G-level unless contradicted by the films."

- Mr Chee himself


HOLY **** THANK YOU HOLY SHIT

I have dealt with people claiming the novelization is just as valid as the movie just because "LUCAS LOOKED AT AND EDITED TEH MANUSCRIPT!!!" And now I have the evidence to shut those people down.

Thank you for totally grasping the point of this thread DMB 😂

Eh I'm not overly interested in the topic of the thread, just saw a piece of evidence relevant to a very annoying persistent issue I've been confronted with in SW debating that'll make my life easier.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Eh I'm not overly interested in the topic of the thread, just saw a piece of evidence relevant to a very annoying persistent issue I've been confronted with in SW debating that'll make my life easier.

Then here is some fuel for the vitriol based campaign:

"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films."

"The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play."

"The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.'"

These were the thoughts of Chris Caresi, editor of the 'Official Fact Files' who had made these comments during his time at LFL.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Beni,

C-canon is not literally defined as 'everything-everything'. There have been literal outlines as to what's considered canon, what isn't, and in what order of priority they're assorted in. These are structures that have been spelled-out before and after that statement was made. So please don't pretend to be stupid, and please don't pigeonhole the entire franchise with one of Chee's general comments. Similarly, I could meet your blatant sophistry with another equally foolhardy point - Seen as Chee gives us a nice list of what's considered 'C-canon' in that same excerpt you presented, where does he state publisher summaries come under that category? Or perhaps we could go with your personal view Beni - that everything is part of the 'canon'... so would that include the nutritional values written on the side of my Star Wars Easter egg?

Lol Ziggy, apply a little common sense. Obviously when Chee says "everything" he does not literally mean everything, and there are nuances to be considered here - but evidently the point he is trying to make is that C-Canon encompasses a very broad scope, and certainly doesn't give justification to limiting it to just the stuff in the book.

And he doesn't list sourcebooks either friend, he's obviously giving examples, not a complete list.

Anyway, as you rightly pointed out, Chee's responsible for holocroning. So he's the right person to cite on the matter. His additional statements make it clear that author views remain outside the continuum:

"In a nutshell, anything created by the author would be C-level. Anything in the the novels created by George Lucas (whether it comes from unpublished early script versions, unpublished author interviews with George, or George's revisions to the novelization manuscript) would be G-level unless contradicted by the films."

- Mr Chee himself

Author creations are considered c-level canon. Author summaries or their unofficial opinions are not. When it comes to personal notes, the only named authority is George Lucas himself.

Hmm? All this says is that that which is created by the author is canon, cool we know that, I'm not seeing anywhere in this quote were Chee is precluding everything else, which for the record would include a lot of the items he previously listed as falling within this category.
Then you shall also treat my Star Wars calendar as canon. Although, I can't see anything displaying the 'ABY' system of year-counting. Instead, the dates are displayed much like a Gregorian calendar with the current year being 2016. Seen as everything is 'canon' I suppose it must also be 2016 in a galaxy far far away.
Lol because it's not referring to the Star Wars universe, publishing summaries are, well spotted.
You are wrong. In fact, I'd argue that such a statement wouldn't have been vetted, seen as it was not detailed in a fictional creation and has no need to be. Going by LFL's policy of not wanting to hand out 'power-charts', it makes sense that the personal view of Caedus vs Vader is not written in an official work. It is not a fact and doesn't have to be taken as such. Jacen does not have to have a greater command of the force than his grandfather, and given his underwhelming feats, i'd say the opposite is true.
"You are wrong", "I'd argue", hmm so is this your opinion or fact? It's on the cover of the book friend, why would they vett the contents but not the cover?

As for not handing out power characters, Caedus > Vader is hardly a chart, and no different from the innumerable statements Legends and Canon that put X above Y, I'm sure you can think of some.

And cool that's your opinion, besides the point that this is a very specific claim though.

...Perhaps? It simply means they have had a long time to think about these things. But then again, so have some of us. In the end, the publishers summaries are just a little extra perspective and views that may or may not be true. And that is all they are.
Well you can believe that if you want, there wouldn't be a poll if it weren't a matter of opinion. 😉

@Ziggy:

Originally posted by Beniboybling
*inaccurate 😉

Holy sh!t Beni. Rape isn't the answer.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
HOLY **** THANK YOU HOLY SHIT

I have dealt with people claiming the novelization is just as valid as the movie just because "LUCAS LOOKED AT AND EDITED TEH MANUSCRIPT!!!" And now I have the evidence to shut those people down.

Not really, the entire debate is about what defines a contradiction. Showing something the film doesn't touch isn't necessarily a contradiction, for example.