Originally posted by SurturWhy? By what right does anything exist? Who gave people the right to exist, and by what right do you decide who has the right to exist? Your words sound fine enough, but there's no logical backing behind them. You're just uncomfortable with the idea of people you view as beneath you being allowed to live a normal life.
It's quite simple, if you kill you forfeit your right to exist.
Originally posted by NephthysNot really, no. There's a world of difference between British serial killers Ian Brady and Myra Hindley recording the dying screams of children they tortured to death so that they could listen to them later for their own amusement, and a man having sex with an unconscious woman, or even just forcing himself onto an unwilling one without really comprehending how much pain he's causing his victim (which is often the case, a lot of rapists don't really fathom how horrible it is for their victims, and even you once posted a study that determined that a lot of men are genuinely ignorant of what constitutes as rape). The former acknowledges the pain of their victims, and enjoys it.
"Gratuitous and horrific torture of their fellow man for no benefit but to satiate their own sadistic desires" sounds a lot like rape tbh.
Now, don't get me wrong, a lot of acts which would constitute as "rape" would match up with the atrocity I mentioned above, but rape is actually a very broad and complex topic, with many different types of rape.
I'm being kind of a hypocritical cvnt here given my trashing on Surtur for focusing on irrelevant bullshit, but I frankly get really butthurt by the assertion that rape is the most morally reprehensible act someone can commit, since generally speaking I'm far more condemning of murder.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Nah, not really. The mental and emotional prerequisites for it are so mundane and common that it's not even top five.In a world where there are human beings have perpetuated gratuitous and horrific torture of their fellow man for no benefit but to satiate their own sadistic desires rape is frankly mundane and boring as far as "acts of evil" go.
The answer to this question is, from a purely logical standpoint, yes, by the way.
Or rather, it would be if it could be 100% verified that the person is completely rehabilitated and no longer a threat to society. And given that your example seems to be about a serial killing sociopath with deep-rooted brain disorders, short of literally rearranging the way his brain works (which would make him a completely different person, effectively, and also isn't really possible right now, I think), it seems unlikely he could be rehabilitated.
But that's a considerably more extreme example. People like that do exist and have existed, but to be perfectly blunt a guy whose worst crime is having committed rape(s) is quite probably not beyond the realm of rehabilitation.
You two talk about what people "deserve", like because of their past crimes they don't "deserve" to be reintegrated into society after having their behavior corrected. For a couple of atheists (IIRC) this is a weirdly religious train of thought. Do you believe his soul is stained by the crimes of his past? If not, what is there to be gained by keeping a rapist imprisoned forever, or killing them? Your personal satisfaction that someone you view as less than you has been imprisoned or killed? That's mad gay and highly illogical, emotion-driven, if that is the case.
Are you serious? Rape is probably the worst suffering you could inflict on someone (especially a woman).
I'm sorry, Neme, but I disagree with you here. There are non violent crimes And even violent crimes of passion that one can be redeemed from. But when the crime is premeditated sadism like rape, that's where my capacity for forgiveness stops. Rape is sadism and cruelty in its purest form. People have had to kill and steal and even torture for good reasons. There is never a good reason for rape. It is the ultimate form of dehumanization, even worse than slavery IMO. It is essentially is torture for pleasure.
Rapists, pedophiles, and any other sexual assailants do not deserve redemption by sitting in a cell and thinking about what they've done like they're little kids that got grounded.
Where do think law and order comes from? It's the PUNISHMENT of the guilty. I'm sorry, but in cases in which aggresors prey on the defenseless, it is human nature to desire retribution over redemption. Too much suffering was inflicted for the mere mental torture of imprisonment. As I stated, the punishment needs to be physical.
Even religion isn't about redemption. Don't the people who go to hell stay there forever? Where's their redemption? Even the good Lawd knows that there are scumbags who need to be punished for their crimes permanently, which is why their stay in Hell is permanent and not temporary.
I hate sharia law and any Abrahamic dogma, but their idea of hanging rapists.....I can't knock it...
Simply, my golden rule of life isn't "treat others the way you want to be treated". For me, it's "treat others the way they treat others". If people are compassionate and kind to others, they deserve compassion. If they inflict suffering and cruelty (I'm not talking non violent shoplifters, I'm talking killers, rapists, terrorists, etc.) , they deserve it to be done upon themselves.
I mean I could be non violent and forgiving, like Jesus and Gandhi and MLK JR, but last I checked, their pacifism was rendered moot by their eventual murders.
Are you serious? Rape is probably the worst suffering you could inflict on someone (especially a woman).
Yea no, torture and then something called murder is worse but that just seems like common sense to everyone else.
If you say so. We'll see what happens when Randy The (supposedly) Reformed Rapist decides to move next to your home and family. How many barbecues will you have him at?
Originally posted by Lestov16
Rape is torture. IDK if homicide is worse, considering killing can be justified, unlike rape.
Rape is torture. Murder is worse. And if a killing is justified, it's no longer considered murder. Therefore murder is the worst. Notice how nobody even said homicide but nice play on words to try and get your point across 👆
Originally posted by NemeBro
Not really, no. There's a world of difference between British serial killers Ian Brady and Myra Hindley recording the dying screams of children they tortured to death so that they could listen to them later for their own amusement, and a man having sex with an unconscious woman, or even just forcing himself onto an unwilling one without really comprehending how much pain he's causing his victim (which is often the case, a lot of rapists don't really fathom how horrible it is for their victims, and even you once posted a study that determined that a lot of men are genuinely ignorant of what constitutes as rape). The former acknowledges the pain of their victims, and enjoys it.Now, don't get me wrong, a lot of acts which would constitute as "rape" would match up with the atrocity I mentioned above, but rape is actually a very broad and complex topic, with many different types of rape.
I'm being kind of a hypocritical cvnt here given my trashing on Surtur for focusing on irrelevant bullshit, but I frankly get really butthurt by the assertion that rape is the most morally reprehensible act someone can commit, since generally speaking I'm far more condemning of murder.
Thats the worst case, most extreme example of murder. As you say I'm sure that there are equally horrific examples of rapes. Like that Dutch (?) guy who kept his family locked up in his basement. The act being recorded is hardly a unique aspect either. And trying to say that rape is less bad because sometimes its unintentional seems like a misstep, since you can kill people by accident as well. And there are several cases where murder can be justified, even a somewhat positive thing. Such as in self-defense, defense of others or while fighting in a war.
So is murder.