Dooku vs RotS Anakin

Originally posted by Nephthys
I was actually saying that your interpretation was correct. Anakin was winning until Dooku successfully Don Moch'd him, at which point he would have been victorious had Sheev not intervened.

I don't get how Beni thinks this is reaching considering it is literally what happens in the novel. Like, it's 100% inarguable. 😬

Aren't you one of the fellows that argues that the novel's interpretation of the beginning of the fight isn't valid because it's shorter in the movie?

That scene didn't even happen in the movie, bro.

Yeah, he said in a thread that anything that didn't happen in the movie isn't canon. And now he's saying it's 100% inarguable because it happens in the novel, even though it doesn't happen in the movie.

We're discussing Kurk's interpretation of the novel and the events of the novel specifically. I can say Kurk is right about what happened in the book without my personal opinion coming into play.

Both the movie and the novel generally depict the same thing, Dooku was handeling himself until Anakin began tapping into his anger because he saw Obi-Wan supposedly die (which is why he went to check this after the fight) and later on Dooku's failed Dun Moch attempt. Dooku's Makashi can't take Anakin's Djem So but he does use other ways to circumvent this disadvantage, e.g. in TCW S4 he uses his superior power and lightning to turn the tide in his favor while in RotS he uses his superior positioning, mobility and martial ability to gain the advantage. So what it really comes down to is if you think Dooku's other advantages (Lightning, mobility, martial ability, ...) will be enough to compensate for Anakin's superior strength and Djem So.

Anakin's win really had nothing to do with Djem So being > Makashi.

Anakin won because he was more powerful. End of.

The RotS novelization and even the script make it clear that Dooku was struggling with Anakin even before he let loose. Yeah, he did manage to take out Obi Wan and kick Anakin away - but Anakin was also consciously holding back.

And as Thor alluded to, the novelization makes it clear that Dooku was getting thoroughly destroyed in every capacity, not that he was suffering from a technical form mismatch.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
The RotS novelization and even the script make it clear that Dooku was struggling with Anakin even before he let loose. Yeah, he did manage to take out Obi Wan and kick Anakin away - but Anakin was also consciously holding back.

And as Thor alluded to, the novelization makes it clear that Dooku was getting thoroughly destroyed in every capacity, not that he was suffering from a technical form mismatch.

Anakin was never holding back, restraining from unleashing all his anger is something completely else. The RotS novelization litteraly says that Dooku's Makashi can't go head-to-head with Anakin's Djem So, especially with a second fighter in the form of Obi-Wan. The part where Dooku is struggling with Anakin is when he's still meeting Anakin head on, while, after realizing that Anakin's using Djem So, he changes tactics.

People confuse a normal Anakin with the one that suddenly released all is anger, which he has been building up for years.

Dooku apologist are absolutely disgusting.

The dude was nothing more than a disposable scrub; get over it.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Dooku apologist are absolutely disgusting.

The dude was nothing more than a disposable scrub; get over it.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Anakin was never holding back, restraining from unleashing all his anger is something completely else. The RotS novelization litteraly says that Dooku's Makashi can't go head-to-head with Anakin's Djem So, especially with a second fighter in the form of Obi-Wan. The part where Dooku is struggling with Anakin is when he's still meeting Anakin head on, while, after realizing that Anakin's using Djem So, he changes tactics.

People confuse a normal Anakin with the one that suddenly released all is anger, which he has been building up for years.

The question of whether the Anakin that won was "normal" Anakin is separate from whether said Anakin would've beat Dooku regardless of the form disparity, which he clearly would've.

As for normal Anakin vs. Dooku, Anakin would win barring emotional mess ups. Whether this is due to just being better or the match up particulars is difficult to say.

Originally posted by Kurk
He was still one of the most influential people in the galaxy; right up there with Vader.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Yeah, as a pawn, kek.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
The question of whether the Anakin that won was "normal" Anakin is separate from whether said Anakin would've beat Dooku regardless of the form disparity, which he clearly would've.

As for normal Anakin vs. Dooku, Anakin would win barring emotional mess ups. Whether this is due to just being better or the match up particulars is difficult to say.

I definitely like to see some evidence that Anakin would have beaten Dooku, even regardless of the form disparity. The RotS novel said that Anakin's Djem So + Obi-Wan was the reason Dooku couldn't take Anakin head on, that doesn't mean that he couldn't take him at al which he, even looking at the movie, actually had the chance to. That Anakin, under very specific circumstances (Obi-Wan's supposed death and Palpatine's encouragement) can defeat the Count? Sure, that's what happened in RotS but in this thread you take away these circumstances and you have a very different fight.

Even in the last couple of seasons of TCW Anakin was approaching Dooku in dueling skill. In RotS he's definitely overcome him, in teh zone or not.

Does it actually say he thought Obi Wan was dead? He'd had felt that in the Force.

Originally posted by Kurk
Just like Vader 🙂

Sidious had high expectations for Vader actually, and it was actually meant for Vader to be his apprentice. Palpatine even mused himself that Vader' lack of resolve was possibly the reason he never lived up to his potential, despite what happen on Mustafar.

Also, while Vader was a tool, Palpatine, couldn't find anyone worthy enough to take the mantle, despite his constant searching. Hardly sounds like someone easily replaceable to me.

Dooku, however, was always expendable, and replaceable. Never was he meant to be anything more than a tool, LMAO.

Vader was also always expendable and replaceable. Months after joining Sidious, Palpy already thought Sha Koon might replace him, lol. All of Sheev's apprentices were tools, Dooku just had the least amount of value since his purpose was rather limited.

But why is Dooku's purpose in comparison to Sidious' wishes any indication he's a weak combatant, when all sources point to the contrary, is beyond me.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Does it actually say he thought Obi Wan was dead? He'd had felt that in the Force.

In the RotS novel Obi-Wan's fall sounded like he had broken his neck while in the RotS movie Anakin goes to check if he's still alive.

I like it when you dive into a conversation that doesn't pertain to you, and don't even attempt you read my points. Not to mention, taking obvious trolling at face value. But I'll humor you;

Yes, Vader was a tool --- but that wasn't always his purpose, and despite wanting to replace him for entire decades, he never could find anyone powerful enough ---- or worthy enough --- to do so.

Dooku always was a place holder, never was he taken serious as an apprentice.

Originally posted by Petrus
Even in the last couple of seasons of TCW Anakin was approaching Dooku in dueling skill. In RotS he's definitely overcome him, in teh zone or not.

In Dark Disciple Anakin and Dooku fight evenly with the advantage shifting between them, the duel was rather limited but still. Do you have any proof that between Dark Disciple and RotS Anakin advanced noticeably that he would surpass Dooku?