Luminara vs. Atris

Battle takes place in the Jedi Temple. Who wins?

Don't think Atris can penetrate her defenses in blade-to-blade combat, but she could win all-out through Drain etc.

Or she'll just Crush Luminara to death as she did to Meetra Surik 🙂

Luminara should win via being a substantially greater duelist.

Don't think the gap's that substantial, and as an entirely defensive fighter, I don't see Luminara being able to outduel Atris before the latter makes use of powers like Drain to turn the tide.

Luminara; much better duelist, and similarly strong in the Force. Drain's not an efficient combat power, and likely won't come into play for a majority of fights.

To what extent has Atris demonstrated drain in combat before?

Also how could she have crushed Meetra and what TK/barrier feats did Meetra have at that point in time?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
To what extent has Atris demonstrated drain in combat before?

Hard to say, since the only duels we've seen her in are against Brianna, where it's implied that they dueled each other to a standstill before Atris got tired of it and stomped her with Lightning, and against the Exile, who was just better (and there's little detail regarding the fight other than the Exile's lightsaber prowess being better).

That said, she "commands an array of potent dark side powers like Drain Life and Force Storm", per the Prima Guide, which suggests, of course, that she's well and truly capable of calling upon those powers if necessary. She also claims to "command" all the teachings of combat and the Force she gleaned from the dozens of Sith holocrons in her chamber. So I don't think there's any question that she can call upon Drain Life whenever it's necessary.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Also how could she have crushed Meetra and what TK/barrier feats did Meetra have at that point in time?

It's a joke. https://youtu.be/ssK9kZ5WRXI?t=88

Except drain has been stated as incredibly difficult to use in combat, and we've never even seen the extent to which Atris can wield it in combat, much less against another powerful Force user.

I'm not convinced that's gonna be a deciding factor.

I don’t imagine the Prima Guide would warn you of her ability to use Drain, nor would it say that she “commands” it if it wasn’t going to be use. Moreover, she’s learned from dozens of Sith holocrons. I find it hard to believe that she can’t call upon Drain in an effective manner in combat.

I’m not convinced it’s going to be a deciding factor

But Luminara’s Soresu offense is going to be? The gap isn't as big as you’re making it out to be in that area, IMO.

If Luminara is much more skilled with the blade it doesn't matter if she uses the saber offensively or defensively, she can still out-skill her opponent when they attack her and cut them down in short order. And it's not like Luminara doesn't also have offensive forms under her belt.

Yeah but how effective isn't specified.

But as far as the prima guide goes, is Meetra not immune to drain in which case the prima guide would be a warning against something that's not even a factor? Or is she not immune to drain in which case Atris's useage of drain amounted to... meh?

I don’t imagine the Prima Guide would warn you of her ability to use Drain,

Yeah, because it works the same as any other power in the gameplay. 😬

nor would it say that she “commands” it if it wasn’t going to be use.

I shouldn't need to explain why this is retarded.

AP's mental retardation has infected KMC, we need to call the CDC

Not at all. The main basis for Luminara apparently being so much more skilled is because she held her own against Ventress, but Soresu is designed to defend against opponents and prolongs fights. It can make fights seem a lot closer than they actually are – which is why Luminara, even with Ahsoka’s aid, was at an impasse against Ventress. Correct me if I’m wrong, but as I recall, Luminara never once made any offensive headway in her duel against Ventress; she was literally just defending the entire time. I don’t think that makes a strong case for her being so much more skilled than Atris as is being purported here. After all, Atris is a high-level master of multiple forms and was dueling evenly with someone who had just B-teamed five elite martial artists with Battle Precognition.

Relating to Drain, Meetra’s resistance to it doesn’t render the Prima Guide’s quote irrelevant, since it mentions her being able to command an array of dark side powers, including, but hardly limited to, Drain. It also mentions the Force Storm variant of Lightning, and there’d be numerous other powers as well. It’s just mentioning that she’s capable of calling upon her powers in battle. How much of an effect would they have on Luminara? That’s up for discussion.

Yeah, except Ultimate Star Wars has stated that Luminara and Ventress fought "to a standstill", so they should be pretty even when it comes to skill, and Ventress only won the initial engagement with Luminara by kicking her off a platform, not by way of overwhelming her saber defenses. It also should be noted that Ventress was pretty ****ing pissed-off, so Luminara fending off that assault for a period of time is quite impressive, especially given she just took steam to the eye 10 seconds earlier. Also, Luminara wasn't just defending the whole time, she's visibly trading blows and fencing Ventress -- her move-sets are clearly not entirely defensive. And I'm also really not about to place Atris near Luminara in skill just because she mastered Juyo, plus contending with Ventress' speed is also likely above Atris's capabilities, seeing as how Ventress IIRC matched Fisto in speed and almost overwhelmed Kenobi's defenses in The Cestus Deception.

I mean, if Ventress was just straight-up more skilled than Luminara her defenses would have been bypassed early-on, or Luminara would have been driven back completely. But no, she stood her ground with an injury and was effectively stonewalling Ventress' assault for nearly a minute before losing through BFR.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
I mean, if Ventress was just straight-up more skilled than Luminara her defenses would have been bypassed early-on, or Luminara would have been driven back completely. But no, she stood her ground with an injury and was effectively stonewalling Ventress' assault for nearly a minute before losing through BFR.

If Ventress were straight up more skilled, that wouldn't mean that she could easily bypass Luminara's defenses at all - for the same reason that Obi-Wan "dueled Dooku to a standstill" in the RotS novel despite Dooku being more skilled. That's how Soresu works.

I agree that Luminara's noticeably more skilled, but not considerably. Where do you have her in skill, anyway? Since Ventress by this time is a near-equal to Obi-Wan, so that'd put Luminara extremely high if you have her on par with Ventress.

Either way, Luminara doesn't need to be as good as Ventress to beat Atris with room to spare. 👆

Originally posted by SunRazer
If Ventress were straight up more skilled, that wouldn't mean that she could easily bypass Luminara's defenses at all - for the same reason that Obi-Wan "dueled Dooku to a standstill" in the RotS novel despite Dooku being more skilled. That's how Soresu works.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Either way, Luminara doesn't need to be as good as Ventress to beat Atris with room to spare. 👆