Old Master Maul vs. ROTJ Luke Skywalker

Originally posted by Unbowed
I wouldn't necessarily take most of what Maul did in that episode at face value, including the "I can't take Vader alone" line.

We need to understand that Maul is dissembling throughout the whole episode. His goals are to make use of the holocron firstly and recruit Ezra secondly. To that end he needs to pull the wool over the crew's eyes and make them trust him, so he'll say and do whatever he needs to.

For instance I don't believe for a second Maul couldn't have made the jump to the holocron by himself, or that the slabs of rock were as difficult to lift as he made it seem. But he needed to make Ezra trust him somehow, and what better way than to overcome struggles together?

Same deal with the sabre lock. I believe Maul is to the Inquisitors what Sidious was to Maul and Savage in TCW. They can hang with him for a while but once he gets serious he'll pick them apart one by one.

If he couldn't he wouldn't have rushed them as he did. He purposely allowed Kanaan and Ashoka to intervene to give them a "brothers in arms" experience and lull them to sleep.

mmm Interesting.

Maul was being truthful about not being capable of taking Vader alone.

Yeah between Vader performing better against Ahsoka in sabers and Vader outstripping Maul in TK I don't know what argument there is to be made for Maul.

Damn. Surprising coming from you dmb.

It's not like Ashoka could beat Vader alone either. She was constantly on the Backfoot and struggling like all hell. Vader looked sloppy as shit too :/

Originally posted by Syndicate
Damn. Surprising coming from you dmb.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
That was also probably the first time in like a decade Maul had ever dueled anyone.

That being said, he admits he can't take Vader by himself...but Luke apparently can.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah between Vader performing better against Ahsoka in sabers and Vader outstripping Maul in TK I don't know what argument there is to be made for Maul.

Oh yeah I didn't even think about how Vader performed Vastly better against Ahsoka.

Also Vader could never lose to Kanan. Blind, In the Zone or Regular Kanan.

So yeah, there's no argument left for Maul.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh yeah I didn't even think about how Vader performed Vastly better against Ahsoka.

Also Vader could never lose to Kanan. Blind, In the Zone or Regular Kanan.

So yeah, there's no argument left for Maul.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Maul was being truthful about not being capable of taking Vader alone.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying Maul can beat Vader(both are yet to show their full strength in Rebels), but he's never one to write a fight off before it even started. He didn't fear Dooku or Grievous, he took on Mace Windu and Aayla Secura at the same time, he even stood up to Sidious.
It's not in Maul's personality to think himself inferior to anyone except Sidious.

And here's another point to consider: after Maul saves Ezra and kills the 7th senses something in the Force, presumably Vader. But he still blindsides Kanaan and attacks Ashoka.

If Maul feared Vader, why not simply wait and gang up on him with Kanaan and Ashoka?

Also I don't see how you can say that Vader performed better against Ashoka than Maul. She traded blows with Maul for literally 3 or 4 seconds before she ran away. She could have done the same against Vader if running away was her intention.

If anything, at the very beginning Ashokra was more aggressive and pressed Vader more than she did Maul. She even Force pushed him.

No, Ahsoka and Maul fought for an extended period of time for over a minute and neither had an edge -- their duel was far longer than 3-4 seconds. Vader, bar Ahsoka's initial offensive, was the one driving the duel forward pretty consistently and almost always held the edge from what we saw (again, bar Ahsoka's initial offensive). Vader's performance > Maul's, and Ahsoka only retreated against Maul because she went to fetch Ezra and left Kanan to deal with Maul, not because Maul was overpowering her.

Assuming Vader is right, Luke was possibly stronger than Anakin had been.

Originally posted by Unbowed
Was he? I don't think so.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying Maul can beat Vader(both are yet to show their full strength in Rebels), but he's never one to write a fight off before it even started. He didn't fear Dooku or Grievous, he took on Mace Windu and Aayla Secura at the same time, he even stood up to Sidious.
It's not in Maul's personality to think himself inferior to anyone except Sidious.

And here's another point to consider: after Maul saves Ezra and kills the 7th senses something in the Force, presumably Vader. But he still blindsides Kanaan and attacks Ashoka.

If Maul feared Vader, why not simply wait and gang up on him with Kanaan and Ashoka?

Aside from the fact that FPJ and Sam Witwer already confirmed the line about Maul not being capable of defeating Vader was Intentional because Filoni is very protective of Vader (I.e. Filoni will always protect Vader's status as the top dog)..

1) Like you said, Maul always admitted his inferiority to Sidious. Vader is more on that level. Mauls not stupid and wouldn't have survived this long if he didn't acknowledge when he was outmatched.

2) Mauls plan was to use the Temple's Weapon of Mass Destruction against the Sith.

Joker's already addressed how much better Vader did against Ahsoka. Vader and Maul's individual performances were not even close.

Not to mention Maul's embarrassing loss to Kanan (I realise it was a One-Off In The Zone moment, but it could never happen to Vader, whose just in another league).

Give Maul time throughout the series to get his dueling back up to scratch and he'll exceed Ashoka.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
It's not like Ashoka could beat Vader alone either. She was constantly on the Backfoot and struggling like all hell. Vader looked sloppy as shit too :/

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh yeah I didn't even think about how Vader performed Vastly better against Ahsoka.

This shouldn't be an argument. Vader probably knew Ahsoka fighting style much better then Maul. He also changed his fighting style after Mustafar, so it's was unknown for her.
"Running away again, Lady Tano - also suggest, that she met Maul between TCW and Rebels. Hard to tell how many times though. It only implys, that he could be better in the past. Also, the fact that he attacked her and Kanan also might suggest, that he was still consider himself as superior by some margin (worth of ntoing is that he was seeing her in action few moments before).

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Luke wins sabers. He's a legitimate match for Vader as a duelist.

A clone of Maul was able to bring Vader to his knees.

Vader only won because he stabbed HIMSELF and Maul with his lightsaber.

Originally posted by McP
This shouldn't be an argument. Vader probably knew Ahsoka fighting style much better then Maul. He also changed his fighting style after Mustafar, so it's was unknown for her.
"Running away again, Lady Tano - also suggest, that she met Maul between TCW and Rebels. Hard to tell how many times though. It only implys, that he could be better in the past. Also, the fact that he attacked her and Kanan also might suggest, that he was still consider himself as superior by some margin (worth of ntoing is that he was seeing her in action few moments before).

It's been a long time since Vader taught Ahsoka. That shouldn't really be a factor anymore.

They met towards end of TCW in an undeveloped episode. We don't know exactly what happened except they met, and would have no bearing on the abilities of Rebels Ahsoka anyway.

Maul cheap shotted Kanan for a reason.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's been a long time since Vader taught Ahsoka. That shouldn't really be a factor anymore.

They met towards end of TCW in an undeveloped episode. We don't know exactly what happened except they met, and would have no bearing on the abilities of Rebels Ahsoka anyway.

Maul cheap shotted Kanan for a reason.

Blind Kanan didn't just suddenly get some gigantic AMP from being Blind, he won because he was near a cliff.