Massive Exar Kun telepathy feat.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Because taking a feat at face value, when it has precedent, is not remotely the same as taking an accolade at face value, when the accolade in question is clearly hyperbolic, as the canonical description of what the accolade regards contradicts the notion of the accolade itself.

Plenty of people in this very thread have cited this feat as "clearly hyperbolic", so I guess this feat is clearly hyperbolic as well? Or does one making the claim actually have to support it?

The precedent cited is Sheev, not Kun. That Sheev is capable of doing something doesn't mean Kun is and doesn't prove Kun's boasts.

Nowhere is the Storm feat contradicted lol.

I responded on the last page, if you missed it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
How can I concede a stance I never made, you bloody imbecile. Difference between you and me, I actually listened to the audio drama.

The storm sharing the properties of a black hole vis a' vis renders it threatening the literal universe, impossible. Even Star Wars logic isn't terrible enough to ignore that the universe is expanding at a far greater, ever faster rate and thus nothing is capable of destroying it. Not even the most poorly written Star Wars fluff is hitting anywhere near universe busting.

Galaxy threatening is almost possible, but even the most massive super-massive black holes in the universe, can only slowly distort the galaxy. Even that is at a rate that Palpatine would die before he'd achieved anything of the sort.

What Kun is doing here, isn't even remotely comparable.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Alright.

2. The comic doesn't state or imply anywhere that there was a threat to all of space, which would portend a much greater threat that was illustrated in the comic. You didn't answer my question on Tyranus.

3. What double standards are you referring to, first? I didn't use AP's points in this thread, lol. For that matter, what the hell is your stance on why this quote is so unbelievable in the first place? I haven't bothered to keep up to date with all these pages of banter.

4. As for "it totes makes Kun look cooler", why is this not applicable to you when discussing how you immediately took on board the "all of space" quote?

That's not a contradiction lol. A contradiction would be where the comic and companion are mutually exclusive.

My stance isn't necessarily that the quote is far fetched. My stance is that a far more straightforward quote was dismissed out of hand and this is the second time in a week that those same Kunts who denied expected different treatment when it involves quotes they like.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's not a contradiction lol. A contradiction would be where the comic and companion are mutually exclusive.

My stance isn't necessarily that the quote is far fetched. My stance is that a far more straightforward quote was dismissed out of hand and this is the second time in a week that those same Kunts who denied expected different treatment when it involves quotes they like.

1. Actually, the contradiction is the fact that the Wormhole was illustrated with a finite size 👆

2. How is it far more straightforward? It's direct in both cases. The only difference is that we've yet to deduce how many technicians were affected.

I'm not denying anything. The hyperbole argument isn't applicable to the Kun quotes, so that's not a double standard on my part. Different arguments were used in an attempt to debunk them. And I acknowledged that there were different possible interpretations for the other quote.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The storm sharing the properties of a black hole vis a' vis renders it threatening the literal universe, impossible. Even Star Wars logic isn't terrible enough to ignore that the universe is expanding at a far greater, ever faster rate and thus nothing is capable of destroying it. Not even the most poorly written Star Wars fluff is hitting anywhere near universe busting.

Galaxy threatening is almost possible, but even the most massive super-massive black holes in the universe, can only slowly distort the universe. Even that is at a rate that Palpatine would die before he'd achieved anything of the sort.

What Kun is doing here, isn't even remotely comparable.

So in other words, while Star Wars is a fantastical IP that doesn't always adhere to common sense or Earth physics or whatever when it favors Kun, when the situation favors Palpatine suspension of disbelief takes a hard stop.

Got it, AP. Keep on keeping on. 👍

Not when the Force storm is literally described as sharing the properties of an actual black hole, so your attempt at calling double-standards falls flat on its face there.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Actually, the contradiction is the fact that the Wormhole was illustrated with a finite size 👆

2. How is it far more straightforward? It's direct in both cases. The only difference is that we've yet to deduce how many technicians were affected.

I'm not denying anything. The hyperbole argument isn't applicable to the Kun quotes, so that's not a double standard on my part. Different arguments were used in an attempt to debunk them. And I acknowledged that there were different possible interpretations for the other quote.

And the comic's companion requires that the Force storm be of infinite size from inception? Where is the contradiction, Nova? You're not going to find one lol.

I'll let you hunt for it and we'll address more at length a little later. I'm on mobile at the moment.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And the comic's companion requires that the Force storm be of infinite size from inception? Where is the contradiction, Nova? You're not going to find one lol.

I'll let you hunt for it and we'll address more at length a little later. I'm on mobile at the moment.

1. A threat to all of space by definition means something capable of engulfing infinite dimensions, meaning that it would have to possess infinite dimensions as well. Which it didn't as per illustrations in the comic, so that's a contradiction, I'm afraid. 🙂

2. It's near midnight here, and I may have to hit the sack soon. It'd be easier if you just caught me up later.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The storm sharing the properties of a black hole vis a' vis renders it threatening the literal universe, impossible. Even Star Wars logic isn't terrible enough to ignore that the universe is expanding at a far greater, ever faster rate and thus nothing is capable of destroying it. Not even the most poorly written Star Wars fluff is hitting anywhere near universe busting.

Galaxy threatening is almost possible, but even the most massive super-massive black holes in the universe, can only slowly distort the galaxy. Even that is at a rate that Palpatine would die before he'd achieved anything of the sort.

What Kun is doing here, isn't even remotely comparable.

Um, no. That doesn't mean he couldn't consume the universe, just that it would take a lot (an understatement) - more than any RL black hole (with which the storm shares analogies but hardly literal equivalence) - so thanks for wanking it more.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. A threat to all of space by definition means something capable of engulfing infinite dimensions, meaning that it would have to possess infinite dimensions as well. Which it didn't as per illustrations in the comic, so that's a contradiction, I'm afraid. 🙂

Lmao it's only a contradiction if the Force storm couldn't or wouldn't develop the traits that would enable it to consume all of space. No one ever said that it would have done so at the precise sequence that we saw it on page. The line is that it "threatened" to consume all of space.

So again, where is the contradiction?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Lmao it's only a contradiction if the Force storm couldn't or wouldn't develop the traits that would enable it to consume all of space. No one ever said that it would have done so at the precise sequence that we saw it on page. The line is that it "threatened" to consume all of space.

So again, where is the contradiction?

To "threaten" to consume all of space means that it'd have the capability to engulf it shortly, yes? If you define it differently, let me know. We could be on the same page without realizing.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Um, no. That doesn't mean he couldn't consume the universe, just that it would take a lot (an understatement) - more than any RL black hole (with which the storm shares analogies but hardly literal equivalence) - so thanks for wanking it more.

There are super-massive black holes that make the Emperor's storms look like drain pipes. Those SMBHs are themselves a speck of dust by comparison to the universe. This is like saying you can destroy a planet with a fire cracker.

Originally posted by SunRazer
To "threaten" to consume all of space means that it'd have the capability to engulf it shortly, yes? If you define it differently, let me know. We could be on the same page without realizing.

The verb strongly implies a sense of urgency but does not give any sort of approximation. Could be minutes, could be an hour, could be days before its in a position to consume all of space.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The verb strongly implies a sense of urgency but does not give any sort of approximation. Could be minutes, could be an hour, could be days before its in a position to consume all of space.

It's obviously not minutes etc.

Under this theoretical notion, all of the Emperor's wormholes have the potential to consume all of space, since they can expand forever, but the problem is that they'll never reach that potential.

Originally posted by AncientPower
There are super-massive black holes that make the Emperor's storms look like drain pipes. Those SMBHs are themselves a speck of dust by comparison to the universe. This is like saying you can destroy a planet with a fire cracker.

This logic is conveniently circular.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It is obviously a network of systems, as Exar Kun hears the verbal alert from other towers when the Jedi Starsabers attacked Cinnagar. It's a single system with towers all across the city. Exar Kun 'blinded' every scanning technician that detected his approach to the planet and stopped any of them from sounding an alert so the Krath fleet could intercept him.

Yes, Exar Kun hears the alert from other towers - so to prevent him from doing so, you just disable the tower that alerts the others. It makes no sense to assert that every single tower is simultaneously watching every ship, because otherwise Exar wouldn't have needed to be "alerted" to it.

Could Sidious defeat a universe buster like himself

I realise that Ellimist was banned for a month, so he won't be able to respond until he gets back but I was waiting until the weekend to reply to this and won't back out now.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
The distinction: we're not saying that Kun is wrong because he could be lying - that just opens the possibility. The actual argument is the fact that it doesn't make any sense because you don't need a planet to monitor a single ship.

Your premise still relies on Kun lying about it for no reason, even if it is not your main point. Whether or not it makes sense, "Kun is lying" is your argument. As I've explained, that's an idiotic thing to consider. From an in-universe perspective and from our own as debaters. The premise that Kun actually did blind all those technicians makes far more sense than him being a lunatic who lies for no reason.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Or we can do the opposite, and you take Sidious's belief that he's "succeeded where all others have failed in taming the dark side" as gospel too. 👆

I'd thought you better than this, frankly. Sidious' "belief" is just that, a belief that could be incorrect easily. It isn't the same as Kun talking about something he's just done. He's not going to be wrong about his own actions.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
So your reply to my previous claim of hypocrisy that you were accusing Sidious of lying is that Sidious didn't have as much information to compare himself to everyone before him, etc. Well, thanks for destroying your own point with this authorial intent angle. Remember the New Essential Chronology, which claimed that Sidious was the most powerful sith in galactic history? Do you think the author was thinking about subtly hinting that the in-universe historian was just wrong, or talking about political power? Nah.

Nice try, but it's been explicitly said by a leading authority that statements about Sidious relative to other Sith are indeed meant to be arguable. I'm sure you know the one, Ziggy has bee posting it enough. This is not the case with Kun's feat, which is him directly stating an action that he just did, with nothing contradicting his version of events.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
There's a difference between violating real life empirical scientific relationships and violating basic logic. If you think we can do the latter, then how the f*ck do we generate a debate in the first place?

mmm Aren't all of your arguments attempts to logically parse arguments too? Wait, doesn't this also kill your "Sidious can't really destroy the imperial palace" claim? After all, that's talking about his knowledge of history, .i.e. "realism".

😆 It's almost like you're setting the precedent to destroy every one of your own positions that you've ever had here.

Star Wars violates basic logic all the time. Your nitpick about technicians is nothing compared to the massive logical failings that are nevertheless canon. This is the entire concept of suspension of disbelief. It might not make sense for certain things to work like they do, but they still do actually work that way in the story because that's what happened in the story.

I think you might have gotten your wires crossed if you think Sidious destroying a palace is about his knowledge of history. I never said that Sidious couldn't destroy the Imperial Palace. I merely corrected people who mis-remembered the quote and thought that he claimed that when in fact he didn't.

You're raving. 🙄

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Except he says they all watched him land.

While destroying a docking bay.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
They need technicians spread out across the entire planet to scan a single ship's arrival, when there were likely hundreds of thousands arriving at the same time? 🙄

Like I said, you have no earthly clue about how the system works or the limitations of scanning. You're nitpicking out of your ass and saying a system doesn't make sense when you have no idea what the system is or how it works.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah, he couldn't be sure that the technician on the other side of the planet wouldn't watch him below up a docking bay. 👆

You see, here are these things called cameras.....

Originally posted by The Ellimist
And Sidious's opinion >>>>>>>>>> yours by the same logic. Thanks.

Oh, in the Plagueis novel Sidious speculates that he's the most powerful Force user ever. 👆

This isn't a speculation, fool. Exar Kun is not "speculating" over what he's done. I'm pretty sure he knows damn well exactly what he just did. Sidious and Plagueis can be wrong about things they lack a clear understanding of. Exar Kun knows his own actions and has no reason to lie.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because they were forced to watch, paraylsis alone doesn't force you to do anything. If you were looking at your shoes, or nodding the **** off, you wouldn't see jack shit. Evidently Kun's spell forced them to watch what Kun wanted them too. So yeah mind control. And like by controlling someone's mind you can make them do different shit, like force them to watch something, or make them fail to respond to what they are seeing...

But nah I expect Kun has a spell for each and every one. 🙄

They were in the middle of the trial of the century. They'd be looking at what's happening, not their shoes. The text says "the entire chamber is frozen" because they were paralyzed. You can even see someone frozen with his mouth open. Them being frozen is the main point of the statement.

You also failed to respond to the fact that your spell makes no sense in the context of the scene. Kun wouldn't need to give a speech if he were controlling their minds and supplanting their thoughts with his voice. Fact.