Galen Marek and Revan vs Luke Skywalker

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Uh, didn't Palpatine himself muse that? You know, the most arrogant and overconfident character in all of Star Wars?

He's actually quite insecure in his own thoughts. But the idea that he'd lie to himself about how powerful he is is kind of funny. Nobody is more worked up over the extent of their power/the limits of their power than Palpatine.

What he says vocally may not be accurate, but what he knows he can do in his private mind is different. And hardly unbelievable, anyway.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Also, Luke completely dominating Darth Caedus effortlessly

Hence why when they fought, a bloodlusted Luke didn't instantly destroy him - because he can't.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Sidious was stated to be capable of taking apart the Imperial Palace, a superior showing to taking apart the Byss castle. Sidious has access to far more destructive force powers like force storms and is generally is generally far more knowledgable in the Force along with having better TP and lightning. What exactly does Luke exceed him in Forcewise?

What do Force storms and TP have to do with his lock with Galen?

Given Caedus hasn't even demonstrated force feats on par with Vader I'd have to disagree.

He's explicitly above Vader; sorry, but just saying publisher's statements aren't valid because you don't like them isn't an argument. Publishers have creative license too.

Regardless, even if you think Galen Marek is a challenge for Luke, Revan hasn't shown anything to suggest he is.

Originally posted by SunRazer
He's actually quite insecure in his own thoughts. But the idea that he'd lie to himself about how powerful he is is kind of funny. Nobody is more worked up over the extent of their power/the limits of their power than Palpatine.

What he says vocally may not be accurate, but what he knows he can do is different. And hardly unbelievable, anyway.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
What do Force storms and TP have to do with his lock with Galen?

He's explicitly above Vader; sorry, but just saying publisher's statements aren't valid because you don't like them isn't an argument. Publishers have creative license too.

Regardless, even if you think Galen Marek is a challenge for Luke, Revan hasn't shown anything to suggest he is.

They don't. DC was stating Luke's superiority to Sidious as a force user and I was asking him what feats Luke has that rival Sidious's own.

I'm sorry but I won't support unsupported quotes like Plagueis > Valk or Caedus > Vader. I'll leave Revan to Ant.

Prime Luke? I don't think it's a question that he's above DE Sidious, tbh, other than the Sidious > Luke counterculture.

He's above Luke. 👆

Originally posted by Syndicate
Sidious was stated to be capable of taking apart the Imperial Palace, a superior showing to taking apart the Byss castle.

It's reliability aside, he only actually says he could destroy his office as I recall. People seem to have just jumped him destroying the whole thing despite that not being what it actually says.

It says he can crack the foundations of the building with a thought, which is large enough to house 900m Star Destroyers.

And?

And that's good?

Luke has better, though.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's laughable. He's blatantly arrogant in nearly every source we have for him and completely misjudged his powers and abilities against the Luke/Leia duo and also Mace if you believe he didn't throw the fight.

Definitely not in Mace's case, lol.

For Luke/Leia, he claimed things verbally, which I already said can be taken into question. And this passage seems to reflect authorial intent.

Originally posted by Syndicate
They don't. DC was stating Luke's superiority to Sidious as a force user and I was asking him what feats Luke has that rival Sidious's own.

Black holes, which you still don't think is impressive for some reason, UnuThul, Caedus, Vader's fortress, killing seven slayers, etc.

I'm sorry but I won't support unsupported quotes

The quotes are their own support. That's like saying you don't support the Plagueis' novels description of Tenebrous because it isn't "supported" anywhere else - it counts as evidence unto itself.

Anyway, the case for Luke being leagues above Galen, even if you ignore all of his monstrous feats, is that he was already matching Vader as a duelist as of RotJ, with like a few months of real training. 👆

If you wish to suggest that Vader was "conflicted", follow your own tongue and prove up.

Additionally, Vader and Sidious were both immensely pleased by Luke's progress, even though they thought he had been training from a young age. So they thought his ability at that age matched what they'd expect someone with Skywalker's potential to have. .i.e. Luke grows powerful immensely quickly, and then grows for 40 years to his peak, and it's ludicrous to assert that he wouldn't have vastly outstripped Vader, who had about 30 years to train and half the potential.

Palpatine can underestimate others, but he seems fairly realistic about his own abilities in an absolute sense. He acknowledges that he can't control his storms by RotJ, that he needs to work on this or that, etc.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I could've sworn there was a quote somewhere saying that the Emperor can "destroy them both"

The Emperor tells Vader that to his face when he encounters Starkiller for the first time. "Now you will kill him or I will destroy you both."

But that was pre-prime 'Killer, to be fair.

Sidious was stated to be capable of taking apart the Imperial Palace, a superior showing to taking apart the Byss castle.

Not to mention, Luke was far from his prime collapsed, recreated, then destroyed, the mountain size structure, anyway. Scale it, and it's > Palpatine not-so-infallible quote on his TK.

Sidious has access to far more destructive force powers like forcestorms

That being said, if Luke's n00bs trainee Jedi could create something similar to a Force Storm like Skywalker mused in Dark Apprentice, I don't see why Luke couldn't if he actually tries.

generally is generally far more knowledgable in the Force along

Nah, LMAO. Luke has shown abilities Palpatine couldn't dream of. Show me Palpatine using Art of Small, Fold Space, Flow Walk, Alter Environment, doppelganger, invisibility, etc.

with having better TP

and lightning.

Given Caedus hasn't even demonstrated force feats on par with Vader

His mastery, versatility, and knowledge in the Force, clearly supersedes him however, and that's not debatable.

But even if you are correct (which, you aren't), the ease at which he performed the feat, would still mean he could do the same to Galen, just with more effort. Unless you think there is a massive difference between Jacen and Galen, which, is down right cancer.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The Emperor tells Vader that to his face when he encounters Starkiller for the first time. "Now you will kill him or I will destroy you both."

But that was pre-prime 'Killer, to be fair.

Well, I mean, he was also dying on the floor at the time.

Palpatine might've used Fold Space to transmigrate his spirit across countless light years in very short timespans.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, I mean, he was also dying on the floor at the time.

Doesn't Palpatine say this before Vader backstabs Galen? I haven't played in ages.

Out of curiosity do you have a quote on the size of Vader's fortress Luke took down?

Luke's best feats are probably, not necessarily in order (although UnuThul may be 1):

1. Tanking UnuThul's TK and becoming literally immovable.
2. Manipulating artificial singularities.
3. Pinning Caedus to his chair with a gesture.
4. Destroying and rebuilding Vader's fortress.
5. Cloaking a 1600 km long (IIRC) capital ship.
6. Creating and moving through a dogfight a physical copy of the Falcon.
7. Creating illusory fleets that could fool Caedus.
8. Fighting Abeloth (although this is more difficult to quantify).
9. Storming Shimrra's palace.
And I may be missing a few.

While he doesn't have any raw destructive feats on par with Force storms, you wouldn't expect him to as a Jedi. His actual telekinesis feats outstrip RotS Sidious's and probably RotJ/DE Sidious's, as do his combat feats, his illusions, etc.

Sidious's advantages, like storms and his mind-fugging of Byss, are things you wouldn't expect Luke to do anyway.

Plus, given his potential and that he beat Wankatine in a duel in DE with just some unlocked reserves from Leia, it seems likely given his growth curve that he'd have surpassed Sidious perhaps by NJO, certainly by DN/LotF.