Neph, if the best you can muster at this point is "he was old and stupid hurr durr" then you'll find its you who needs to leave. On the other hand I'll be holding on to my brain cells, and assuming Sedriss was simply too dangerous to approach, as opposed to all of the characters becoming suddenly as retarded as you.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
He evidently didn't pull her clear, as Sedriss still had her in his grip in the panel preceding the explosion:And given proper perspective, we can see that he was no more than a meter away:
The woman being even closer. So yeah, they were pretty close, about as close as Kun as far as it is relevant to the comparison.
Luke clearly did pull them free since Sedriss obviously no longer has a hand on her during the explosion. Unless you think Luke used a barrier in between his grip. Regardless we can see in the panel that at the time of the attack they are a good distance away.
Kun was standing closer than that and was advancing on Ood. Plus Ood grew in size.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
No they don't lol, let's read over the text together:"Get back Skywalker. The evil one is trying to kill me! But I am a greater master of the Force than he."
"Luke -- get back, man... it's too late to save her!"
Please point out to me the part where it's even hinted that Bnar is about to explode, because I am not seeing it. Telling Luke to "get back" does not inform him of the nature of the threat, merely of a threat, that at the time appeared to be the energy Sedriss was summoning. That immediately after both Luke and Kam express surprise at what had happened reinforcing the fact that neither of them knew what Bnar was about to do. Or rather they were no more blindsided by the event than Kun.
Yeah, I'm sure them telling him to stand back and Ood flat out saying he was about to do something with the Force made Luke think they were gonna rip a gnarly fart, lol. Ood was crackling with energy, its not exactly hard to figure out shit was about to happen. Luke knew something was going to happen as evidenced by him being able to pull up a force barrier to protect himself and the girl. Theres no indication of Kun doing the same. People get blindsided in SW all the time. Its barely notable.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
He was shaking and grimacing as he tried to get to his feet and using the debris for support, that is struggling to stand yeah. And those additional factors hardly make up for the sheer disparity in potency between the explosion Kun and Luke endured, nor the fact that Luke, unlike Kun, was in a weakened condition. Nor is the fact he ended up on his ass what is important, but his difficulty in getting up.
Shaking? He's just standing up. Just because they're some motion lines don't assume they imply he was shaking. He's just in motion. And it's natural to use a nearby object to help you stand, it means nothing.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
It's actually a pretty damning display of weakness for Kun, that he could be humbled in this way by Bnar can be compared with any number of endurance feats, including this one.
It isn't in the slightest. Kun can be compared far more easily against Luke in their clashes and other ways. And Bnar doing so with the power of a planet at his disposal is hardly embarrassing.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
A metaphor for what? Lmao.
From him drawing energy from across the planet or something? Are you saying a planet is alive? Thats not for a couple years down the line, lol.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Neph, if the best you can muster at this point is "he was old and stupid hurr durr" then you'll find its you who needs to leave. On the other hand I'll be holding on to my brain cells, and assuming Sedriss was simply too dangerous to approach, as opposed to all of the characters becoming suddenly as retarded as you.
I know that this is hard for you to understand but Ood and the other characters.... aren't real people. This is all fictional. Dumb things can happen due to dumb writing. Stuff can happen that doesn't actually make much sense. Heroic sacrifices can actually be kind of pointless when you think about them. Sidious can get judo thrown by a pregnant lady. Lets not pretend that DE is a masterful work of literature here.
Personally I think the Leia > Sidious comparison is far more solid. We should focus on that.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Considering Ood destroyed himself with his own attack, I rather think your doubts are insufficient. Bnar clearly did not try to defend himself and used the power solely to destroy Sedriss and himself.
Destroyed himself with his own attack? Is that why Sedriss is stated to be the one annihilating him? LMAO. Both Ood and Sedriss would obviously try and defend themselves, especially when Ood notes he is a greater master of the Force than Sedriss.
Originally posted by Nephthys
"...Ossus became an irradiated world caustic to most beings, plagued by violent electrical storms. Very little surface life remains...." - Geonosis And The Outer Rim Worlds pg. 109.Note it also states that it was "intense radiation" that Ood survived from the supernova.
Very nice. Shame, however, that the guide says there is less surface life when compared to the old Ossus. But, Ood isn't drawing from the surface, he's drawing from the Living Force from the core of the world itself. Unless you can prove the core itself is damaged, his source of power remains the same.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The Republic and Jedi aren't limited to rebuilding structures you fool. Replenishing the world with plant and animal life is part of the reconstruction project. Later the Ossus project headed by Kol Skywalker using Vong terraforming to make the planet lush and fertile again.
LMAO. So the Jedi repopulated the gokob, which were native and lived only on Ossus? How? Assuming Ossus was mostly ravaged by the supernova shockwaves, then I doubt some rats are going to survive them, lel.
As for Kol, he only used the Vong to reflourish the planet after it deteriorated upon the fall of Luke's Jedi Academy, i.e. a time after Dark Empire. 👆
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its also stated that only a very few of the planets toughest species survived the nova. I'm pretty sure most planets aren't covered by that, Ood excepted. Hell, you just need to look at a picture of the planet to see not a spot of green.
So hairless rats are now among the thoughest species in the galaxy? And the kingwood trees are of outstanding power? 😂 Keep telling yourself that.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You're assuming that based on what? I wasn't aware you're have any knowledge on this subject. As you've said the effects of the nova were limited and several buildings survived. A focused electrical attack could easily eclipse it.
No, I'm basing it off of logic. The radiation present was a fraction of the nova shockwave, and it subsided over the course of four thousand years. It is a far smaller source of energy than the supernova, unless of course you wish to argue Sedriss manipulated all of the radiation, charged electricity, and storms raging over Ossus... But really, that'd be Sedriss maniplating powers on the multi-continental scale, and that'd still mark him ahead of Exar Kun.
The Kun brigade is screwed, either way.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You're assuming he could do more than manipulate energy. It could easily have used up all of his power to do so. Unless you think drawing power from an electrical storm in the atmosphere is an easy thing to do. Not to mention that Sedriss is fairly mediocre. That's the best he could manage.
Based on what is Sedriss mediocre? Based on your head-cannon? 😆
He's meant to be Sheev's second-in-command besides Vader, and the closest thing to an apprentice an adapt can get. He's an empowered, Dark Side powerhouse, who's crushing Kam Solusar and other of the Empire's finest warriors easily.
To call him mediocre is just a laughable amount of ignorance, which you're hinging on now. And now that you mention it, if Sedriss is mediocre, does that mean Kun is as well?
What with QL succeeding where Exar failed and all.
Originally posted by Nephthys
"Using his force powers, Ood destroyed himself and Sedriss forever." - Power of the Jedi pg. 136.Huh, will ya look at that. I was right. It was Ood who destroyed them both, not Sedriss.
Well, the Sedriss comparison was a little flawed and there is some reason to believe Bnar took ill with an heroic intent. Hence why he left a descendant.
This is also supported by Bnar believing he's more powerful than Sedriss in the Force.
Originally posted by Nephthysfacepalm
I know that this is hard for you to understand but Ood and the other characters.... aren't real people. This is all fictional. Dumb things can happen due to dumb writing. Stuff can happen that doesn't actually make much sense. Heroic sacrifices can actually be kind of pointless when you think about them. Sidious can get judo thrown by a pregnant lady. Lets not pretend that DE is a masterful work of literature here.Personally I think the Leia > Sidious comparison is far more solid. We should focus on that.
Do you have an actual response to the logical explanation or just more hopeless rambling?
Originally posted by MythLord
So we're cherry picking quotes now? From what I recall, the PoJS was written from an in-universe perspective, thus making it more fallible than the New Essential Guide to Characters.
Do you have the quote from that guide? Also wasn't it written by Kam, the guy standing 2 meters away when this happened?
Kam Soulsar is certainly going to have a better interpretation of events out of anyone bar Luke Skywalker. Insomuch that he's a trained Force user who can sense energy signatures, and most certainly differentiate a polarizing struggle of dark vs light power - being a couple of yards away from the event helps also. As a secondary point, The Power of the Jedi was published after The New Essential Guide. As it introduces a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, we can consider latter to be retconned.
Originally posted by NephthysBecause the explosion blew them away, I would think that was obvious considering they are flying through the air. Altogether I'm not seeing what suggests there to be a notable disparity in distance between the two, if you can prove it I'm all ears, but if not you're just nitpicking.
Luke clearly did pull them free since Sedriss obviously no longer has a hand on her during the explosion. Unless you think Luke used a barrier in between his grip. Regardless we can see in the panel that at the time of the attack they are a good distance away.Kun was standing closer than that and was advancing on Ood. Plus Ood grew in size.
Yeah, I'm sure them telling him to stand back and Ood flat out saying he was about to do something with the Force made Luke think they were gonna rip a gnarly fart, lol. Ood was crackling with energy, its not exactly hard to figure out shit was about to happen. Luke knew something was going to happen as evidenced by him being able to pull up a force barrier to protect himself and the girl. Theres no indication of Kun doing the same. People get blindsided in SW all the time. Its barely notable.Ood was crackling with energy because Sedriss was attacking him, again the only visible threat present. And though there is an indication Ood was going to do something Luke is still not given any indication what, and expresses after surprise at an explosion of such magnitude. So yes, he was blindsided, and the fact that he fails to raise his hands to defend himself indicates whatever barrier he erected was hastily prepared, if not a split-second reaction. Indeed, the same lack of a gesture hardly precludes Kun doing the same, considering he too has split-second reflexes and precognitive powers. But I suppose he just forgot to use those.
That said, even if we were to assume that Luke was more prepared, his flailing posture suggests any defences he raised were meagre nonetheless, and when considered on top of his weakened state, hardly makes up for the disparity in the power of the explosion.
Shaking? He's just standing up. Just because they're some motion lines don't assume they imply he was shaking. He's just in motion. And it's natural to use a nearby object to help you stand, it means nothing.I'm not seeing the motion lines around Kun when he was supposedly "advancing" on Urr, or when he was flung away by his power. However I am seeing them on Urr when he was left crippled by the Massassi and when his body started trembling during transformation. Yeah. Motion lines aren't necessary to depict someone rising when the act is implicit, so trembling is what I infer. Nor is there anything natural about a person possessing superhuman strength using a support to pick himself up lol, that on top of his facial expression only contributes to the impression of difficulty.
It isn't in the slightest. Kun can be compared far more easily against Luke in their clashes and other ways. And Bnar doing so with the power of a planet at his disposal is hardly embarrassing.It is, how embarrassing you'll discover in time, I suppose. 🙂
From him drawing energy from across the planet or something? Are you saying a planet is alive? Thats not for a couple years down the line, lol.And yet 'core' suggests something centred, not widespread. I wouldn't recommend taking up creative writing any time soon if that's what you consider to be a metaphor lol. As for what I'm saying, that would be what the text says, that Urr drew power from the planet's core, you can speculate on what that means in your own time.
Originally posted by MythLordCan you provide the quote Myth?
So we're cherry picking quotes now? From what I recall, the PoJS was written from an in-universe perspective, thus making it more fallible than the New Essential Guide to Characters.
Originally posted by ZiggystardustKam is not really in a position to study what is going on closely with Bnar blowing up in his face tbh.
Kam Soulsar is certainly going to have a better interpretation of events out of anyone bar Luke Skywalker. Insomuch that he's a trained Force user who can sense energy signatures, and most certainly differentiate a polarizing struggle of dark vs light power - being a couple of yards away from the event helps also. As a secondary point, The Power of the Jedi was published after The New Essential Guide. As it introduces a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, we can consider latter to be retconned.
Just to note, The New Essential Guide To Characters is also written from an in universe perspective, as a nameless narrator transcribing historical events up until the Yuzhan Vong War, and as a in universe perspective, it maintains ignorance of information from later in the timeline.
So yes, in Kam's interpretation is obviously the better one, and the Power of the Jedi having succeeded The New Essential Guide to Characters means we no longer have to regard information from the latter.
All guides are as a built in fail-safe for the writers, but these "scribes" are usually considered omniscient as well, so I'd still take that over Kam. Regardless they are both just narrative gimmicks, hardly indicative of anything tbh.
The fact that the Power of the Jedi sourcebook is "succeeded" by the New Essential Guide to Characters by a whopping three months meaning nothing, it wasn't intended to replace that latter anyway.
Who are they considered omniscient by Beni?
Can you find the relevant text within the Source book that makes it so?
Because a scribe is a person who writes books or documents by hand to keep track of records. As noted by the New Essential Guide to Characters this is some nameless person in the Galaxy who's making a databank of characters during the Vong War. On the other hand, Kam Solsaur is first hand witness of the events with perception capabilities beyond the five senses, giving a more detailed and more reliable account of what actually happened. And yes Beni, a whopping 3 months is plenty of time for a retcon by definition of the term, as is 3 weeks, as is 3 days.
Originally posted by BeniboyblingThat is from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia,
and I assume to be common reference book policy.
Ok?
And this is from the New Essential Guide Guide to Characters - which funnily enough - happens to be the scripture we are analysing. The first few pages draw curtains to the perspective in which it's written, and quite clearly it is very different from an omniscient source of historians compiled over 10, 000 years of study. Instead... it is written from the perspective of a single scribe - which is defined as a person who translates events in history - who is present during the Vong War.
So Beni, pray do tell, how their can be a common reference book policy, when here there exists two books that literally define their guidelines very differently from one another? Could it be, that not all books are written with the same attitude? Or should I assume that the Thrawn Trilogy is written from Darth Maul's views and perspectives, because that is the case for Shadow Hunter ?
We know of course that works can be presented as if they were written by authors within the Star Wars universe. Just a few to note.
Voren Na'al - The New Essential Chronology
Mammon Hoole - The Essential Guide to Alien Species
Tionne Solusar - Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force
Where is this common reference book policy now?
And I'm sure you think that, but more rational minds would assume most likely produced simultaneously would not be retconning one another.
Well no, they are not retconning one another. The newer one, in this case, The power of the Jedi Sourcebook, openly presents different information to what was stated in The New Essential Guide to Characters - hence the latter is no longer relevant. The Star Wars Expanded Universe features innumerable amount of retcons and the elapsed time between them can be measured in less than a couple of months. The same goes for all fiction, anytime, anywhere. So I'm afraid that retconning according to the many rational minds living under Beniboybling's bed will have to accept that the only way in which Sedriss succeeded where Kun didn't was by being killed.