Originally posted by AncientPowerI'd prefer a direct response to the arguments made rather than a straw man attempt to handwave them, but then this is you we are talking about, so perhaps it's for the best.
So Ood Bnar uses the nexus of Ossus in its prime to create an impenetrable barrier of Force energy with Surge, where he is literally transforming into the planet, which is enough to tank the following super nova wave. Then because Sedriss can destroy Ood Bnar, in a far less powerful version of Ossus, where it isn't even implied that Bnar defends himself, Sedriss > Exar Kun?Damn DE Luke > Sedriss > Exar Kun >> Master Luke confirmed.
Top tier logic.
Originally posted by Ursumeles👆
Tbh, Sidious amped Sedriss should be at least comparable with the likes of Kun, Vader or Caedus.
Ridicolous arguments, like Kyle>Caedus, must be countered with ridicolous arguments. (Tho Sedriss>Kun is less cancer, than Kyle>Jacen).
Though as I say, the mere suggestion of Kun's impotency is enough. Even if Sedriss was only channelling the charged atmosphere of the planet, the fact remains that he was able to summon the power to destroy Bnar where Kun could not, or rather he was able to summon power exceeding all of that in Kun's body. And Luke "overwhelmed" him rather easily, in a weakened state. Within those contexts its more than circumspect to suggest that Kun is significantly more powerful than Luke, if more powerful at all.
Originally posted by BeniboyblingAnd can I expect a response to this Neph? Or is Kun just not worth it?
Are you reading the same comic?He didn't have the presence of mind to get clear, Kam did but Luke was occupied trying to save the girl to pay heed to Bnar's warning. I'm not seeing where you are getting the idea he got clear from, you'll have to explain. And evidently was close enough to have gotten hit since it's stated they were "flung to the ground" (hint, Kam Solusar, who did get clear, was not.) Again, are we reading the same comic?
EDIT: And in TotJ it states that "waves of Force surge through the newly transformed Jedi master", waves that we see crackling around him and evidently responsible for flooring Kun. The alternate being he was left struggling to stand after being hit by a tree, lol.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
.👆Though as I say, the mere suggestion of Kun's impotency is enough. Even if Sedriss was only channelling the charged atmosphere of the planet, the fact remains that he was able to summon the power to destroy Bnar where Kun could not, or rather he was able to summon power exceeding all of that in Kun's body. And Luke "overwhelmed" him rather easily, in a weakened state. Within those contexts its more than circumspect to suggest that Kun is significantly more powerful than Luke, if more powerful at all.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'd prefer a direct response to the arguments made rather than a straw man attempt to handwave them, but then this is you we are talking about, so perhaps it's for the best.👆Though as I say, the mere suggestion of Kun's impotency is enough. Even if Sedriss was only channelling the charged atmosphere of the planet, the fact remains that he was able to summon the power to destroy Bnar where Kun could not, or rather he was able to summon power exceeding all of that in Kun's body. And Luke "overwhelmed" him rather easily, in a weakened state. Within those contexts its more than circumspect to suggest that Kun is significantly more powerful than Luke, if more powerful at all.
Nah, it's basic common sense that a planet at its height in power is going to have drastically greater reservoirs of Force energy than a planet devastated by a supernova wave.
You're also completely and utterly ignoring the fact that Ood isn't even mentioned to attempt to defend against Sedriss in a Force exchange.
But hey according to you and Myth, Sedriss is a supernova+ tier Force wielder, the more you know. 👆
Originally posted by AncientPowerActually, I've already addressed why it's the opposite.
Nah, it's basic common sense that a planet at its height in power is going to have drastically greater reservoirs of Force energy than a planet devastated by a supernova wave.
You're also completely and utterly ignoring the fact that Ood isn't even mentioned to attempt to defend against Sedriss in a Force exchange.Because it doesn't matter. Ood was pressed to desperate if not suicidal measures by Sedriss where Kun failed.
But hey according to you and Myth, Sedriss is a supernova+ tier Force wielder, the more you know. 👆A misleading comparison, if Ossus had been subject to the full power of a supernova it would have been obliterated. Instead the planet appears largely undamaged and even its structures remain intact.
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Here's what I'm getting.. Sedriss and Bnar killed each other
. The page succeeding implies Bnar might have disintegrated them both to save them all - and he even leaves a legacy of a small stump behind for an heroic intent
. The living energy of the planets core - which is tied to the plants and animals - is going to be considerably less than what it was in Kun's time, even if it's somehow still powerful.
. Bnar in Kun's time could tank a supernova in that form, the implications here are that Sedriss is more powerful than that, despite of the planets condition, a notion which is more problematic that him being > Kun
. The charged atmosphere Sedriss drew upon probably has more to do with it than Sedriss' personal power and he is simply a conduit to use it.
The New Essential Guide to Characters notes that Sedriss and Bnar annihilated each other. Bnar sacrificed himself in a sense that he died while facing Sedriss, who killed him.
We don't know the state of Ossus as of Dark Empire. Its flaura and fauna are mentioned in later novels, however, it can clearly house colonies, and the only reason we're looking at ruins is because that is the place Luke and Kam are focusing on. Ossus itself remains largely intact and the living Force is very much concentrated on said planet. And Ood drew directly from it's core in both instances, which is undamaged and has hidden reserves independant of the ones above ala Ambria.
Ood also tanked the shockwaves, or rather partial devestation, of the supernova. If the supernova's true effects reached Ossus, the planet, or at least it's structures, would've been reduced to dust.
Sedriss manipulated, and possibly added his own power to the charged atmosphere. I doubt Ood would've been legitimately annihilated by a fraction of the power he once endured fairly well.
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Not really, that just means whatever power Luke could summon was greater than Sedriss at that point, not that Sedriss couldn't surpass or even rival him, or that he couldn't get the better of Luke when amped. Even Telekinesis can be a case of skill over raw power - Dooku is able to overwhelm Anakin with TK. You just end the line their by saying Kun overpowered Luke in weakened state . And we both know that Kun is masterful enough to take out Sedriss pretty easily too.
Well, Luke was exhausted at that point and the Dark Side Sourcebook note how Luke's mastery and power of the Force were simply greater than Sedriss'. Sedriss was simply sprawled on the ground and overwhelmed by Luke.
If we assume Sedriss is greater than Luke in raw power, then I question how he prevented -- and easily at that -- Sedriss crushing Kam Solusar's throat.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Are you reading the same comic?He didn't have the presence of mind to get clear, Kam did but Luke was occupied trying to save the girl to pay heed to Bnar's warning. I'm not seeing where you are getting the idea he got clear from, you'll have to explain. And evidently was close enough to have gotten hit since it's stated they were "flung to the ground" (hint, Kam Solusar, who did get clear, was not.) Again, are we reading the same comic?
EDIT: And in TotJ it states that "waves of Force surge through the newly transformed Jedi master", waves that we see crackling around him and evidently responsible for flooring Kun. The alternate being he was left struggling to stand after being hit by a tree, lol.
It doesn't matter, either he pulled her clear and they fell backwards or the very outskirts of the attack pushed them back. It's clear that Luke shielded them from the edge of the attack which could have caused them to be knocked back. At any rate he was clearly only hit by the very edge of the attack. He obviously knew an attack was going to happen, he's not frickin' deaf, both Ood and Kam tell him it is and so he was able to protect himself from it. Unlike Kun who got blind-sided by Ood suddenly. This is an insane attempt at a legitimate comparison between Kun and Luke. There are far, far more reliable and less idiotic means to do that.
He was hardly struggling to stand. He was unharmed and afterwards is walking and talking without effort. The most likely explanation is that its a combination of the 3 factors of Bnar's sudden barrier, the ground exploding under Kun's feet and Bnar sudden growth that unbalanced Kun. I'd hardly buy that the ground getting wrecked under him didn't contribute to his falling.
Originally posted by MythLord
The New Essential Guide to Characters notes that Sedriss and Bnar annihilated each other. Bnar sacrificed himself in a sense that he died while facing Sedriss, who killed him.
Oh man, thanks for clearing this up. So therefore Bnar really didn't attempt a defensive barrier like he did in Kun's case. Instead their two attacks combined and they vaporised each other. So there is no comparison to be made between the two cases. Great, glad we sorted this out.
Originally posted by MythLord
We don't know the state of Ossus as of Dark Empire. Its flaura and fauna are mentioned in later novels, however, it can clearly house colonies, and the only reason we're looking at ruins is because that is the place Luke and Kam are focusing on. Ossus itself remains largely intact and the living Force is very much concentrated on said planet. And Ood drew directly from it's core in both instances, which is undamaged and has hidden reserves independant of the ones above ala Ambria.
We do, I've told you about it. It was mostly a barren wasteland with a scarred atmosphere. The flaura and fauna noted afterwards were because of revitalization efforts of the Republic and Jedi. People survived on the planet because they were force sensitive descendants of the survivors of the supernova.
Also, not sure I need to tell you this but pretty sure its metaphorical when it talks about the core. Ood was drawing on living energy and uh, planets aren't alive.
Originally posted by MythLord
Sedriss manipulated, and possibly added his own power to the charged atmosphere. I doubt Ood would've been legitimately annihilated by a fraction of the power he once endured fairly well.
Yeah, you just proved that it was both of their attacks that destroyed each other since they were locked together. So theres nothing doubtful about it.
Also you're forgetting that Sedriss would have focused the energy from the atmosphere far more than the supernova would have been.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
So, how we came from Caedus vs Kun to Kun vs Sedriss again?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh man, thanks for clearing this up. So therefore Bnar really didn't attempt a defensive barrier like he did in Kun's case. Instead their two attacks combined and they vaporised each other. So there is no comparison to be made between the two cases. Great, glad we sorted this out.
I doubt Bnar wouldn't defend himself from Sedriss' attacks, especially when it was Sedriss who struck first, then Bnar counter-attacked and they ended up destroying each other.
I assume both were defending themselves, whilst attacking the other. It is the only logical option, unless Force users suddenly lost their minds.
Originally posted by Nephthys
We do, I've told you about it. It was mostly a barren wasteland with a scarred atmosphere. The flaura and fauna noted afterwards were because of revitalization efforts of the Republic and Jedi. People survived on the planet because they were force sensitive descendants of the survivors of the supernova.Also, not sure I need to tell you this but pretty sure its metaphorical when it talks about the core. Ood was drawing on living energy and uh, planets aren't alive.
You said it is just a barren wasteland because it has a charged atmosphere, lmao. We only saw the Jedi ruins at the time because that was what Kam and Luke were focusing on primarily.
There's obviously still life on the planet. And apparently the Jedi repopulating Ossus suddenly increases the amount of kingwood, bambwood and gokobs, I'm sure.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, you just proved that it was both of their attacks that destroyed each other since they were locked together. So theres nothing doubtful about it.Also you're forgetting that Sedriss would have focused the energy from the atmosphere far more than the supernova would have been.
The energy would've still been a mere fraction of the damage Ood took head-on. So there is certainly doubt about it, especially since someone as smart and powerful as Sedriss would've done more than simply manipulate energy, when he's plunging his mind into the Dark Side, and fighting his last battle.
He would've used ever ounce of the energy he had left, not just enough to "draw from the charged atmosphere".
Originally posted by NephthysHe evidently didn't pull her clear, as Sedriss still had her in his grip in the panel preceding the explosion:
It doesn't matter, either he pulled her clear and they fell backwards or the very outskirts of the attack pushed them back. It's clear that Luke shielded them from the edge of the attack which could have caused them to be knocked back. At any rate he was clearly only hit by the very edge of the attack
And given proper perspective, we can see that he was no more than a meter away:
The woman being even closer. So yeah, they were pretty close, about as close as Kun as far as it is relevant to the comparison.
He obviously knew an attack was going to happen, he's not frickin' deaf, both Ood and Kam tell him it is and so he was able to protect himself from it. Unlike Kun who got blind-sided by Ood suddenly.No they don't lol, let's read over the text together:
"Get back Skywalker. The evil one is trying to kill me! But I am a greater master of the Force than he."
"Luke -- get back, man... it's too late to save her!"
Please point out to me the part where it's even hinted that Bnar is about to explode, because I am not seeing it. Telling Luke to "get back" does not inform him of the nature of the threat, merely of a threat, that at the time appeared to be the energy Sedriss was summoning. That immediately after both Luke and Kam express surprise at what had happened reinforcing the fact that neither of them knew what Bnar was about to do. Or rather they were no more blindsided by the event than Kun.
He was hardly struggling to stand. He was unharmed and afterwards is walking and talking without effort. The most likely explanation is that its a combination of the 3 factors of Bnar's sudden barrier, the ground exploding under Kun's feet and Bnar sudden growth that unbalanced Kun. I'd hardly buy that the ground getting wrecked under him didn't contribute to his falling.He was shaking and grimacing as he tried to get to his feet and using the debris for support, that is struggling to stand yeah. And those additional factors hardly make up for the sheer disparity in potency between the explosion Kun and Luke endured, nor the fact that Luke, unlike Kun, was in a weakened condition. Nor is the fact he ended up on his ass what is important, but his difficulty in getting up.
This is an insane attempt at a legitimate comparison between Kun and Luke. There are far, far more reliable and less idiotic means to do that.It's actually a pretty damning display of weakness for Kun, that he could be humbled in this way by Bnar can be compared with any number of endurance feats, including this one.
Also, not sure I need to tell you this but pretty sure its metaphorical when it talks about the core. Ood was drawing on living energy and uh, planets aren't alive.A metaphor for what? Lmao.
Originally posted by MythLord
I doubt Bnar wouldn't defend himself from Sedriss' attacks, especially when it was Sedriss who struck first, then Bnar counter-attacked and they ended up destroying each other.I assume both were defending themselves, whilst attacking the other. It is the only logical option, unless Force users suddenly lost their minds.
Considering Ood destroyed himself with his own attack, I rather think your doubts are insufficient. Bnar clearly did not try to defend himself and used the power solely to destroy Sedriss and himself.
Originally posted by MythLord
You said it is just a barren wasteland because it has a charged atmosphere, lmao. We only saw the Jedi ruins at the time because that was what Kam and Luke were focusing on primarily.There's obviously still life on the planet. And apparently the Jedi repopulating Ossus suddenly increases the amount of kingwood, bambwood and gokobs, I'm sure.
"...Ossus became an irradiated world caustic to most beings, plagued by violent electrical storms. Very little surface life remains...." - Geonosis And The Outer Rim Worlds pg. 109.
Note it also states that it was "intense radiation" that Ood survived from the supernova.
The Republic and Jedi aren't limited to rebuilding structures you fool. Replenishing the world with plant and animal life is part of the reconstruction project. Later the Ossus project headed by Kol Skywalker using Vong terraforming to make the planet lush and fertile again.
Its also stated that only a very few of the planets toughest species survived the nova. I'm pretty sure most planets aren't covered by that, Ood excepted. Hell, you just need to look at a picture of the planet to see not a spot of green.
Originally posted by MythLord
The energy would've still been a mere fraction of the damage Ood took head-on. So there is certainly doubt about it, especially since someone as smart and powerful as Sedriss would've done more than simply manipulate energy, when he's plunging his mind into the Dark Side, and fighting his last battle.He would've used ever ounce of the energy he had left, not just enough to "draw from the charged atmosphere".
You're assuming that based on what? I wasn't aware you're have any knowledge on this subject. As you've said the effects of the nova were limited and several buildings survived. A focused electrical attack could easily eclipse it.
You're assuming he could do more than manipulate energy. It could easily have used up all of his power to do so. Unless you think drawing power from an electrical storm in the atmosphere is an easy thing to do. Not to mention that Sedriss is fairly mediocre. That's the best he could manage.
Originally posted by Nephthys
"Using his force powers, Ood destroyed himself and Sedriss forever." - Power of the Jedi pg. 136.Huh, will ya look at that. I was right. It was Ood who destroyed them both, not Sedriss. I'll take your concessions in blood please.
it doesn't matter. Ood was pressed to desperate if not suicidal measures by Sedriss where Kun failed.Hurr durr, thanks for the clarification though.