Starkiller and Galen Marek vs Revan Reborn and SoR Revan

Originally posted by AncientPower
Can we all stop pretending Galen wasn't in a clear moment of oneness/focus and still died attempting to absorb Palpatine's lightning?

AP you've missed out on a lot. The Oneness you're referring to only takes place when he is building up a force blast that will allow Juno and the Rebels to escape. When Galen is engaging Sidious in a force lock he is in his normal state. Galen actively lowers his defenses before entering said moment of Oneness which is why he ultimately died.

Would you like the quotes?

So looks like everyone except Syndicate thinks the Revans take it.

Originally posted by Syndicate
I find it to be a better conclusion then Sidious simply forgetting.

I think you misunderstood my point. I'm saying Sidious knew the weaknesses in Galen's training as he was the one to have essentially overseen it. If Galen had some sort of weakness to Force drain you think that would have been the first ability Sidious employed on him when things started getting serious.

To your first point, given that it is truly what the original focus of this was, let's go back to that. It's not so much Sidious outright forgetting that Galen can't defend against it, but that he's more mentally pre-occupied with the escaping rebel leaders, Galen stepping willingly into his lightning. Which, let's also be honest here, was probably at least a bit shocking to someone who kills swathes of people with it easily. And then that person you oversaw the training of from a child suddenly giving you a bit more trouble than you bargained for.

Once more, Palpatine not using drain on Galen when Galen forced a force battle with his lightning =/= Galen having drain resistance. That, coupled with Galen's role as a Jedi hunter and being seen as expendable no way implies he would ever have been given knowledge of drain defense. As the Jedi would not use it and it's a fairly potent ability even Vader has limits as to his resistance to it.

Originally posted by Vixas
To your first point, given that it is truly what the original focus of this was, let's go back to that. It's not so much Sidious outright forgetting that Galen can't defend against it, but that he's more mentally pre-occupied with the escaping rebel leaders, Galen stepping willingly into his lightning. Which, let's also be honest here, was probably at least a bit shocking to someone who kills swathes of people with it easily. And then that person you oversaw the training of from a child suddenly giving you a bit more trouble than you bargained for.

Once more, Palpatine not using drain on Galen when Galen forced a force battle with his lightning =/= Galen having drain resistance. That, coupled with Galen's role as a Jedi hunter and being seen as expendable no way implies he would ever have been given knowledge of drain defense. As the Jedi would not use it and it's a fairly potent ability even Vader has limits as to his resistance to it.

If he was worried about the Rebels leaders escaping you think he would understand that defeating Galen was the quickest way to stop that. I just don't believe Sidious is the type of person to be shocked out of realizing his options.

Fair enough and I'm not saying Galen WAS taught to defend against it. I simply believe that attempting to drain individuals approaching your level isn't an effective way to defeat them hence Sidious not attempting to drain either Talzin or Yoda but instead engaging them in a force lock similarly to how he did Galen.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So looks like everyone except Syndicate thinks the Revans take it.

Originally posted by Syndicate
If he was worried about the Rebels leaders escaping you think he would understand that defeating Galen was the quickest way to stop that. I just don't believe Sidious is the type of person to be shocked out of realizing his options.

Fair enough and I'm not saying Galen WAS taught to defend against it. I simply believe that attempting to drain individuals approaching your level isn't an effective way to defeat them hence Sidious not attempting to drain either Talzin or Yoda but instead engaging them in a force lock similarly to how he did Galen.

Of course, defeating Galen, whom he probably assumed he would roll over with lightning. This is where I meant I agree with you in that Galen likely pushed Sidious a bit more than most think, else sidious would have rolled him to stop the rebels escaping.

To the second point, I think it would depend on the individual. Talzin MAY have had a defense counter to it, and as far as Yoda is concerned I am willing to give the Grandmaster the benefit of the doubt but it's by no means a solid, 110% I believe/know he has/had a defense. I would raise as a counter-point, however, that unless I am mistaken in KOTOR 2 Nihilus drains Traya, the person who taught him the ability and someone near his level at the time, to great effect because Traya belived there was no defense against it, thus she obviously did not have one, same as Starkiller/Galen.

Originally posted by Vixas
Of course, defeating Galen, whom he probably assumed he would roll over with lightning. This is where I meant I agree with you in that Galen likely pushed Sidious a bit more than most think, else sidious would have rolled him to stop the rebels escaping.

To the second point, I think it would depend on the individual. Talzin MAY have had a defense counter to it, and as far as Yoda is concerned I am willing to give the Grandmaster the benefit of the doubt but it's by no means a solid, 110% I believe/know he has/had a defense. I would raise as a counter-point, however, that unless I am mistaken in KOTOR 2 Nihilus drains Traya, the person who taught him the ability and someone near his level at the time, to great effect because Traya belived there was no defense against it, thus she obviously did not have one, same as Starkiller/Galen.

👆

I'd have to disagree with that example as Nihilus is far more powerful then Traya even as of his origins.

Going to the library. We can get into the Nihilus/Traya comparisons when I get back. 🙂

Originally posted by Syndicate
👆

I'd have to disagree with that example as Nihilus is far more powerful then Traya even as of his origins.

More powerful? Sure. Enough to utterly stomp, no questions asked and leave Traya as nothing more than a red streak on Malachor's surface... not so much.

Originally posted by Vixas
More powerful? Sure. Enough to utterly stomp, no questions asked and leave Traya as nothing more than a red streak on Malachor's surface... not so much.

I believe there's a quote saying Nihilus utterly dominated her on the Trayus Academy. Let me ask AP if he has it.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm

THAT WORKS ON THIS FORUM TOO?

Why the **** did no one tell me mmm

Topic: Revan duo

Originally posted by Syndicate
Galen's lightning being capable of powering the hyperdrive of a freighter and a machine that pierced the hull of an ISD seems to be "infinitely" more powerful then lightning Nyriss is capable of employing on neutral ground.

We don't have examples of Darth Nyriss utilizing Force Lightning to affect inanimate objects.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Topic: Revan duo

And how would you know that?

We don't have examples of Darth Nyriss utilizing Force Lightning to affect inanimate objects.

Breaking the force shields of a weakened Meetra seems to be less impressive then powering a machine capable of piercing the hull of an Imperial Star Destroyer. And that's not even Galen at his prime.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Breaking the force shields of a weakened Meetra seems to be less impressive then powering a machine capable of piercing the hull of an Imperial Star Destroyer. And that's not even Galen at his prime.

While the intensity of Force Lightning varies from wielder to wielder, it is deadly to electronics in general, and powerful bursts are known to breach Jedi defenses, disintegrate structures (including a Lightsaber), overwhelm gigantic beasts and vaporize living tissue.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Machines (and inanimate objects) are [B]not designed to withstand Force powers unless specified otherwise. That machine did the heavy work; Galen Marek simply charged it. Your analogy is poor.

While the intensity of Force Lightning varies from wielder to wielder, it is deadly to electronics in general, and powerful bursts are known to breach Jedi defenses, disintegrate structures (including a Lightsaber), overwhelm gigantic beasts and vaporize living tissue. [/B]

I'm not comparing affecting an inanimate object with affecting a force created obstacle. At least not on the basis of the subjects in question.

I'm comparing the energy it took to break through Meetra's force shield to the energy it took to power said machine.

Yes, and? What does that have to do with the potency of the lightning we're comparing?

Originally posted by Syndicate
I'm not comparing affecting an inanimate object with affecting a force created obstacle. At least not on the basis of the subjects in question.

I'm comparing the energy it took to break through Meetra's force shield to the energy it took to power said machine.

Yes, and? What does that have to do with the potency of the lightning we're comparing?

Nothing implies that the said machine was resistant to Force Lightning. I don't see a basis to assume that an extremely powerful burst of Force Lightning was needed to power the said machine when resistance was not a factor in this scenario.

On the other hand, Meetra Surik had defenses against Force Lightning. And Darth Nyriss had to exert much more to overwhelm her defenses because her normal bursts were not getting through.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And how would you know that energy needed to power said machine was greater than the energy needed to overwhelm defenses of a powerful Jedi?

Nothing implies that the said machine was resistant to Force Lightning. I don't see a basis to assume that an extremely powerful burst of Force Lightning was needed to power the said machine when resistance was not a factor in this scenario.

On the other hand, Meetra Surik had defenses against Force Lightning. And Darth Nyriss had to exert much more to overwhelm her defenses because her normal bursts were not getting through.

By looking at her accomplishments and scaling.

Given the blast that was shot out from the machine was the result of Galen's lightning being pumped into it we know the lightning's power had equivalent energy to the blast itself.

Nyriss hit Meetra/Scourge with lightning in that fight? Can you quote that for me?

Well, actually, Nyriss hit Meetra with a singular bolt of lightning, which tore through Meetra's force barrier and knocked her on her ass. Because Nyriss' lightning is that powerful. And Revan "easily" blocked a much more powerful blast of lightning from her.

Galen's lightning isn't doing shit here. 😂

Whyever not?

Syn's hit a new low, lmfao.

What's next? 'Killer can hurt Revsn with TP?