What if Maul killed Kanan?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul was never out dueled by Kenobi. Maul met every strike with a parry and strike of his own. His brother became a liability when he was injured so Maul force pushed him out of the area. This wasn't the first time Maul used a force push at a critical time to gain an advantage. Sidious has more force power than either of them so of course that wouldn't occur to him. A superior force knowledge/power doesn't necessarily mean he can use his get out of jail free card when against similarly powered individuals. We see him beaten by Windu. That didn't happen to Maul. We also see him try to flee a fair fight against a peer in Yoda after just one force push.

Actually, that's not how it goes. When the duel begins, Kenobi is the one who meets every strike the brothers launch at him and answers back ferociously, to the point that he managed to kick Maul back, effectively outdueling him. And yeah, Savage was injured during the fight. By Kenobi. Fighting both Sith simultaneously. Maul only Force pushed Kenobi away when the fight ends. This actually helps my argument.

Yeah, Windu beating Sidious [utilizing techniques no one else in SW has mastered] is irrelevant because Windu > Maul.

Sidious fleeing Yoda but doing the exact opposite against Maul and Savage should be clear enough as to where Maul stands in comparison to Sidious.

Sidious classified as him a rival so in a relatively short time Maul without the benefit of acting in secret as a senator no less. Pretty exceptional feat for Maul.

It means he had a massive army so it was easier for him to achieve his goals. The Jedi were a bunch of dopes save Windu. What Mauk achieved he did with he and his brother alone. He did it through determination and sheer will unlike Palpatine who manipulates his enemies under a false guise. That's a lot easier and he had decades to achieve his power.

Yes, Maul was becoming increasingly dangerous with all the support he was gaining from several criminal factions. That doesn't mean it was enough to even contend with Sidious at the time he decided to deal with Maul and Savage, it just means that eventually he might acquire enough military power to pose a significant threat. This much is obvious simply when you consider Sidious had both the Republic and CIS armies under his command, both of which are infinitely superior to whatever Maul had.

And Palpatine's path to power isn't by any means easier than Maul's, it's actually the opposite. Anyone powerful enough can just come by a crime lord's base, threaten him, kill him or turn him and his followers into pawns. The fact that he acquired his power through deceptive and manipulative means doesn't make it less impressive at all. His plan was masterfully executed and it gave him absolute control over the whole galaxy. Maul had a few criminal factions and Mandalore. 👆

What Sidious did is infinitely more impressive to the point where it doesn't even compare.

Originally posted by Petrus
lmao, as if he's more intelligent than Sidious.

lel, you troll.

Originally posted by Petrus
lel, you troll.

Originally posted by Petrus
Actually, that's not how it goes. When the duel begins, Kenobi is the one who meets every strike the brothers launch at him and answers back ferociously, to the point that he managed to kick Maul back, effectively outdueling him. And yeah, Savage was injured during the fight. By Kenobi. Fighting both Sith simultaneously. Maul only Force pushed Kenobi away when the fight ends. This actually helps my argument.

Yeah, Windu beating Sidious [utilizing techniques no one else in SW has mastered] is irrelevant because Windu > Maul.

Sidious fleeing Yoda but doing the exact opposite against Maul and Savage should be clear enough as to where Maul stands in comparison to Sidious.

Yes, Maul was becoming increasingly dangerous with all the support he was gaining from several criminal factions. That doesn't mean it was enough to even contend with Sidious at the time he decided to deal with Maul and Savage, it just means that eventually he might acquire enough military power to pose a significant threat. This much is obvious simply when you consider Sidious had both the Republic and CIS armies under his command, both of which are infinitely superior to whatever Maul had.

And Palpatine's path to power isn't by any means easier than Maul's, it's actually the opposite. Anyone powerful enough can just come by a crime lord's base, threaten him, kill him or turn him and his followers into pawns. The fact that he acquired his power through deceptive and manipulative means doesn't make it less impressive at all. His plan was masterfully executed and it gave him absolute control over the whole galaxy. Maul had a few criminal factions and Mandalore. 👆

What Sidious did is infinitely more impressive to the point where it doesn't even compare.

I said savage was injured because he was less than Kenobi. Maul defeated Opress by himself in under thirty seconds. Quit with your excuses as each character useless whatever abilities they have it doesn't excuse Palpatine losing.

I never said Maul was superior to Palpatine in a duel I said he was better with his combat acumen whereas Sidious is more force powerful.

Maul went to each criminal syndicate and personally scared them into submission with the manipulation of Pre Vizsla. According to Sidious it was. I didn't see with the factions they had it was enough to win but in the short time Maul amassed power he rose to challenge a galactic power. That's very impressive considering what resources Maul had at the time.

Palpatine's circumstances were different and he had the opportunity to achieve this under their noses. Maul never held the same opportunity and he achieved this after the Jedi and Sidious both were aware of his continued existence. Maul manipulated those who were aware of who and what he was. Palpatine was unable to manipulate Luke and lost his own apprentice with decades worth of service in the blink of an eye showing a huge error in judgment.

What Maul achieve with the little to no resources he had available at the time is ten times as impressive as what Sidious achieved without opposition and in decades.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your double standards are despicable. Maul also kicked Sidious back in their duel so by your unbelievable trolling he was out dueling Sidious with that kick. A force push Bfr somehow is less than a kick which did what to stop Maul from attacking ?

The difference is that this was Sidious vs. two opponents, and one of them managed to land a kick. He was also playing around. It's easy to tell he wasn't even giving it his best effort against the pair, and this is clear because had he wanted to, he would've ended the fight with the Force way sooner. In the fight we're discussing it's Kenobi vs. two opponents, and he's the one who lands a kick, and afterwards slices Savage's arm off and holds both of them off simultaneously. As opposed to Sidious, these two weren't playing around and were actually trying quite hard to defeat Kenobi.

You seem to be forgetting Maul pushed Kenobi away when the fight was already over, so I don't see how it is even relevant.

I said savage was injured because he was less than Kenobi. Maul defeated Opress by himself in under thirty seconds. Quit with your excuses as each character useless whatever abilities they have it doesn't excuse Palpatine losing.

lel, it's just the truth, and these advantages were key for him to defeat Sidious. You should quit ignoring that Windu > Maul, so Windu defeating Palpatine is also irrelevant.

I never said Maul was superior to Palpatine in a duel I said he was better with his combat acumen whereas Sidious is more force powerful.

Yeah, except he's not better than Sidious in anything.

Maul went to each criminal syndicate and personally scared them into submission with the manipulation of Pre Vizsla. According to Sidious it was. I didn't see with the factions they had it was enough to win but in the short time Maul amassed power he rose to challenge a galactic power. That's very impressive considering what resources Maul had at the time.

I'm not saying it wasn't impressive, I agree that it was. But it sure as hell wasn't nearly as impressive as Palpatine's feat.

Palpatine's circumstances were different and he had the opportunity to achieve this under their noses. Maul never held the same opportunity and he achieved this after the Jedi and Sidious both were aware of his continued existence. Maul manipulated those who were aware of who and what he was. Palpatine was unable to manipulate Luke and lost his own apprentice with decades worth of service in the blink of an eye showing a huge error in judgment.

If you want to talk about error in judgment, Maul's error in judgment caused him his legs.

And yes, of course the circumstances were different for both characters, but Sidious' accomplishments regardless of that are just on a different league to Maul's. That's just how it is, and it is plainly obvious.

Palpatine not being able to manipulate Luke speaks more of Luke's incredible willpower and commitment to the light, tbh.

What Maul achieve with the little to no resources he had available at the time is ten times as impressive as what Sidious achieved without opposition and in decades.

As I said before, anyone powerful enough would've been able to accomplish what Maul accomplished.

What Sidious did was necessary in order to achieve absolute galactic domination, and you're heavily underestimating it. It took a very impressive degree of political knowledge, an extremely high IQ to calculate variables, numbers and possibilities correctly, enough power to conceal your identity from several Jedi standing 1 meter away from you, an uncanny ability to lead a double life without being in danger of exposure, among other very difficult things. It really just doesn't compare.

Originally posted by Kurk
could Sidious build a functional pair of legs out of a heap of junk while legless?

If not, he'd just use Maul's legs.

Originally posted by Petrus
The difference is that this was Sidious vs. two opponents, and one of them managed to land a kick. He was also playing around. It's easy to tell he wasn't even giving it his best effort against the pair, and this is clear because had he wanted to, he would've ended the fight with the Force way sooner. In the fight we're discussing it's Kenobi vs. two opponents, and he's the one who lands a kick, and afterwards slices Savage's arm off and holds both of them off simultaneously. As opposed to Sidious, these two weren't playing around and were actually trying quite hard to defeat Kenobi.

You seem to be forgetting Maul pushed Kenobi away when the fight was already over, so I don't see how it is even relevant.

lel, it's just the truth, and these advantages were key for him to defeat Sidious. You should quit ignoring that Windu > Maul, so Windu defeating Palpatine is also irrelevant.

Yeah, except he's not better than Sidious in anything.

I'm not saying it wasn't impressive, I agree that it was. But it sure as hell wasn't nearly as impressive as Palpatine's feat.

If you want to talk about error in judgment, Maul's error in judgment caused him his legs.

And yes, of course the circumstances were different for both characters, but Sidious' accomplishments regardless of that are just on a different league to Maul's. That's just how it is, and it is plainly obvious.

Palpatine not being able to manipulate Luke speaks more of Luke's incredible willpower and commitment to the light, tbh.

As I said before, anyone powerful enough would've been able to accomplish what Maul accomplished.

What Sidious did was necessary in order to achieve absolute galactic domination, and you're heavily underestimating it. It took a very impressive degree of political knowledge, an extremely high IQ to calculate variables, numbers and possibilities correctly, enough power to conceal your identity from several Jedi standing 1 meter away from you, an uncanny ability to lead a double life without being in danger of exposure, among other very difficult things. It really just doesn't compare.

Sidious killed Opress and was not holding back but apparently kicking him is winning according to you. Ridiculous logic. Let's ignore the fact Maul force pushed him away and pretend that isn't a win but a kick which did nothing to hinder him is a win in your house of double standards.

Kenobi was done fighting after he was force pushed not before. That's when the fight ended when Maul ended it. Try to use a little common sense and cease and desist from any future trolling.

When did Windu beat Maul ? He factually beat Sidious so that's a fact. Your opinion however popular doesn't diss is facts and create new ones to make up for your weak position.

He is a better survivor and a more physically imposing threat than Sidious.

It was more impressive due to the reasons I already gave. It is much harder to manipulate someone when they know you're evil as opposed to when they don't.

Palpatine's error cost him his life, his face, and his empire. It shows how overconfident and moronic Palpatine was since he risked his empire to recruit one Jedi.

All easier to accomplish due to his Sith lordship being a secret and also due to his political position. Maul did more with less in a much shorter time. Logic.

Are we forgetting that Maul did overpower Sidious in the end and that the latter ultimately had to rely on his force powers to end the fight?

Originally posted by Kurk
Are we forgetting that Maul did overpower Sidious in the end and that the latter ultimately had to rely on his force powers to end the fight?

You got even worse after my ban. And people say I didn't do anything useful.

Originally posted by Kurk
Are we forgetting that Maul did overpower Sidious in the end and that the latter ultimately had to rely on his force powers to end the fight?

I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you legitimately didn't notice Sidious disarm Maul at the end before ragdolling him. 😬

Those who continue to disrespect Maul will have me and my new apprentice to deal with.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Those who continue to disrespect Maul will have me and my new apprentice to deal with.

I didn't have a good chemotherapy in a week anyway.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
You got even worse after my ban. And people say I didn't do anything useful.

Originally posted by Trocity
I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you legitimately didn't notice Sidious disarm Maul at the end before ragdolling him. 😬

I can't wait until the day it's confirmed that deleted scenes are canon:
https://youtu.be/YxrMEQlTMvs?t=1m8s

Kurk is becoming quite powerful under my careful tutelage.

Originally posted by Trocity
I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you legitimately didn't notice Sidious disarm Maul at the end before ragdolling him. 😬

He did disarm him. But you never know, Maul could have picked one of those Sabers up and carried on fighting if Sidious didn't Force Own him mmm

Originally posted by quanchi112
Iirc Maul kicked him when these two fought alone. You ignore the same logic when applied here because you immediate lay pretend the same logic doesn't count.

It really doesn't because Sidious wasn't going all-out against the two. It's pretty clear he was playing around with both of them and not once during their duel did he even attempt to overpower them with the Force, up until he decided to end it. He was toying them. Maul, Savage and Kenobi weren't playing around at all.

Let's ignore the fact Maul force pushed him away and pretend that isn't a win but a kick which did nothing to hinder him is a win in your house of double standards.

You're conveniently ignoring the fact that Kenobi severing Savage's arm ended the fight, while Maul Force-pushing Kenobi away happened when Maul realized they needed to escape because Savage was injured. That does not equate to a win at all. Your flawed logic is mind-blowing.

Kenobi was done fighting after he was force pushed not before.

No, Maul was done fighting after Kenobi cut off his brother's arm. This is so obvious I don't understand why you even argue against it.

That's when the fight ended when Maul ended it. Try to use a little common sense and cease and desist from any future trolling.

Yeah, the fight ended because Maul pushed Kenobi away because his brother was injured. Definitely not because he won, kek.

When did Windu beat Maul ? He factually beat Sidious so that's a fact. Your opinion however popular doesn't diss is facts and create new ones to make up for your weak position.

Okay so you're saying Windu, who has the abilities required to defeat someone on Sidious' level, wouldn't be able to defeat Maul...? TCW Maul is slightly above TCW Kenobi in terms of dueling skill, whereas Windu approaches Yoda in that area.

"You have to be Yoda or Mace to compete with Sidious" - Lucas.

Unless you're saying Maul is able to compete with Sidious, which would be retarded considering how Sidious stomped him and his brother, then you have no argument for Maul > Windu. His showings in TCW sure as hell don't help, either. Nothing puts him on Windu's level.

He is a better survivor and a more physically imposing threat than Sidious.

A better survivor lol, what does that even mean?

And sure, more physically imposing is correct, given his physical appearance. That still doesn't make him better than Sidious at anything but maybe scaring non-Force users with his horns and tattoos.

It was more impressive due to the reasons I already gave. It is much harder to manipulate someone when they know you're evil as opposed to when they don't.

You can keep telling yourself that Maul achieved what he achieved via anything other than sheer power and bullying, but taking over a couple of criminal organizations and Mandalore <<<<<< taking over the entire galaxy. So your reasons aren't good enough.

Palpatine's error cost him his life, his face, and his empire. It shows how overconfident and moronic Palpatine was since he risked his empire to recruit one Jedi.

You said Palpatine demonstrated a 'huge error in judgment'. Sure, he did. I wasn't disputing that. But don't be a hypocrite, because Maul sure as hell also showed a massive error in judgment when he let this Padawan cut him in half and almost kill him, especially because he had basically already won. Shows how moronic and overconfident Maul was, eh?

All easier to accomplish due to his Sith lordship being a secret and also due to his political position. Maul did more with less in a much shorter time. Logic.

All Maul did was use his power to bully his way to a good military position. I'm not going to address this for like the fourth time. Deal with it and move on.

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Actually Maul never bullied DeathWatch. He offered them a mutually beneficial deal. He also aided them in gaining power in Mandalore. And later when Pre-Vizsla betrayed him had the sense to know he'd need another puppet master in place.

Maul was trained by Sidious in tactics and manipulation. He even tells him "I used your training to build all this Master".

But of course that doesn't put him even in the same ballpark as his Master in building/creating an Empire.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Actually Maul never bullied DeathWatch. He offered them a mutually beneficial deal. He also aided them in gaining power in Mandalore. And later when Pre-Vizsla betrayed him had the sense to know he'd need another puppet master in place.

Maul was trained by Sidious in tactics and manipulation. He even tells him "I used your training to build all this Master".

But of course that doesn't put him even in the same ballpark as his Master in building/creating an Empire.

Okay, I concede on that one. Maul didn't bully Death Watch. But that's about the only time in which he used his head other than his power.

Still nowhere near Sidious' accomplishment.

Him telling that to Sidious is utter bullshit though, considering he only worked things out with his brains and his cunning with Death Watch. He didn't use Sidious' tactics for the rest. Also, he was clearly trying to deceive Sidious, anyway. So we can't take that at face-value.

Originally posted by Petrus
It really doesn't because Sidious wasn't going all-out against the two. It's pretty clear he was playing around with both of them and not once during their duel did he even attempt to overpower them with the Force, up until he decided to end it. He was toying them. Maul, Savage and Kenobi weren't playing around at all.

You're conveniently ignoring the fact that Kenobi severing Savage's arm [B]ended the fight, while Maul Force-pushing Kenobi away happened when Maul realized they needed to escape because Savage was injured. That does not equate to a win at all. Your flawed logic is mind-blowing.

No, Maul was done fighting after Kenobi cut off his brother's arm. This is so obvious I don't understand why you even argue against it.

Yeah, the fight ended because Maul pushed Kenobi away because his brother was injured. Definitely not because he won, kek.

Okay so you're saying Windu, who has the abilities required to defeat someone on Sidious' level, wouldn't be able to defeat Maul...? TCW Maul is slightly above TCW Kenobi in terms of dueling skill, whereas Windu approaches Yoda in that area.

"You have to be Yoda or Mace to compete with Sidious" - Lucas.

Unless you're saying Maul is able to compete with Sidious, which would be retarded considering how Sidious stomped him and his brother, then you have no argument for Maul > Windu. His showings in TCW sure as hell don't help, either. Nothing puts him on Windu's level.

A better survivor lol, what does that even mean?

And sure, more physically imposing is correct, given his physical appearance. That still doesn't make him better than Sidious at anything but maybe scaring non-Force users with his horns and tattoos.

You can keep telling yourself that Maul achieved what he achieved via anything other than sheer power and bullying, but taking over a couple of criminal organizations and Mandalore <<<<<< taking over the entire galaxy. So your reasons aren't good enough.

You said Palpatine demonstrated a 'huge error in judgment'. Sure, he did. I wasn't disputing that. But don't be a hypocrite, because Maul sure as hell also showed a massive error in judgment when he let this Padawan cut him in half and almost kill him, especially because he had basically already won. Shows how moronic and overconfident Maul was, eh?

All Maul did was use his power to bully his way to a good military position. I'm not going to address this for like the fourth time. Deal with it and move on.

ttp://67.media.tumblr.com/da89afbe892e0b2096123052c8b74069/tumblr_nswf3sf27T1rmoekxo4_400.gif[/IMG] [/B]

Kenobi ended the fight against Savage and Maul ended the fight period. If you believe Kenobi ended the fight when he wanted I guess he wanted to get hit back by the force push because he was done fighting according to your red neck logic.

A force push is an attack you fool. If he was done fighting he wouldn't attack him with a force power. Based off your logic force pushes don't count as attacks.

😂

So you agree Maul ended the fight therefore he won via force push. I am damnnnnn good.

I am saying Windu didn't defeat Maul so it isn't a fact. Windu did defeat Sidious so it is a fact. Speculate all you want but you can't create facts.

Lucas isn't there anymore and I said Maul lost. Abc logic has no bearing here.

Maul is faster and more physically powerful without the force so he's got Sidious beat there. He also has better body posture because we see a clear imbalance in Palpatine's anterior side being stronger than his posterior side due to poor posture.

Maul survived a great fall being cut in half whereas Sidious just died from a fall alone. Evidence >>>>your fanboyism.

Untrue as he clearly manipulated the deathwatch to achieve his goals and challenged Pre Vizsla to one on one combat to rise to control. He broke free and rose to a height of power because he's clever.

Maul survived his huge error while Sheev died like a *****. Advantage:Maul.

It looks as if you already conceded this point.