Originally posted by Ursumeles
Krayt was toying iirc.
Fanon.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Kyp>Krayt.
Lmao.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
1. Is stated by numerous in and out of universe sources to have a potential surpassing Vader, and maybe Luke.
Doesn't matter for shit. Maul had the potential to be Sidious successor.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
2. Manipulates a black hole with greater ease than Luke.
And here comes the single most wanked feat in all of SW. If you want to go that route Apocalypse Krayt ~ Luke.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
3. Ragdolls a freighter for use as a telekinetic weapon with casual ease.
In space. Cade did the same with a shuttle on ground when using deathsticks to dull his connection to the force 👆
For all his supposed power Kyp at most was still "only" the combative equal of Jaina. If he could ragdoll the shit out of Jaina he'd be better. He isn't.
Cade is at least as good as Jaina. Kyp ain't ragdolling shit.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
And you missed the point. I didn't say because Kyp didn't ragdoll Jaina in their fight he can't. I said, because Jaina has an accolade of at least being Kyp's combative equal he logically can't ragdoll Jaina. Otherwise they wouldn't be combative equals, Kyp would be better.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Doesn't matter for shit. Maul had the potential to be Sidious successor.
It's powerscaling; Kyp surpasses all of Luke's trainees within like a week, and by FotJ he's middle aged and has been training as a Jedi his entire life. Maul never reaches that age, nor does he have that clear line of progression, but I do use Maul's potential and age as reasons to put him above Bane, for instance.
And here comes the single most wanked feat in all of SW. If you want to go that route Apocalypse Krayt ~ Luke.
You didn't actually respond to my point.
(And Krayt wasn't playing the same tactical role as Luke in that fight, so it's a poor comparison)
In space. Cade did the same with a shuttle on ground when using deathsticks to dull his connection to the force 👆
A freighter is far, far larger. The fact that there was no large gravitational field is more than compensated for by the fact that Kyp would've had to have accelerated the freighter at far more than 1 g for it to have tagged a vessel in a dogfight.
For all his supposed power Kyp at most was still "only" the combative equal of Jaina. If he could ragdoll the shit out of Jaina he'd be better. He isn't.
Where is that stated? Jaina is vaguely stated by some sources to be the equal of "anyone" in the Order, which sounds like Anoon's description of being "second to none". She thinks in LotF: Invincible that several council members are her superior.
Anyway, Jaina > Cade.
Cade is at least as good as Jaina. Kyp ain't ragdolling shit.
Um, based on what?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
It's powerscaling; Kyp surpasses all of Luke's trainees within like a week, and by FotJ he's middle aged and has been training as a Jedi his entire life. Maul never reaches that age, nor does he have that clear line of progression, but I do use Maul's potential and age as reasons to put him above Bane, for instance.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
You didn't actually respond to my point.(And Krayt wasn't playing the same tactical role as Luke in that fight, so it's a poor comparison)
There's nothing to respond. The Black Hole wanking is the single most retarded thing in the whole KMC. A single feat done in a meditative state doesn't mean shit, when Kyp combatively isn't even on Jaina's level.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
A freighter is far, far larger. The fact that there was no large gravitational field is more than compensated for by the fact that Kyp would've had to have accelerated the freighter at far more than 1 g for it to have tagged a vessel in a dogfight.
It compensates for nothing. In space there's no gravity, there's no air resistance, there's no pressure. Once you move something it keeps moving forever, and it's also far easier to move it in the first place.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Where is that stated? Jaina is vaguely stated by some sources to be the equal of "anyone" in the Order, which sounds like Anoon's description of being "second to none". She thinks in LotF: Invincible that several council members are her superior.Anyway, Jaina > Cade.
Jaina Solo, who, as Sword of the Jedi, had proven time and again that she was the combat equal of anyone in the Order.
--Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Um, based on what?
Based on his superior feats across the board you fugg.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Concession accepted. 👆
You can't dismiss a plethora of in and out of universe declarations just because you don't like them. Sorry, not sorry.
There's nothing to respond. The Black Hole wanking is the single most retarded thing in the whole KMC. A single feat done in a meditative state doesn't mean shit, when Kyp combatively isn't even on Jaina's level.
OK, so the only actual argument that you make here is that it was done in a "meditative state". That does matter, yes, but it's hardly as if we never consider feats performed under such conditions, or as if just meditating magically lets any Force user do anything. It's still a matter of fact that basically nobody else in the mythos has pulled off a comparable TK feat, meditation enabled or no. The monstrous showing of collapsing black holes capable of generating gravitational fields comparable to what we'd see from planetary bodies is not taken away because he had to concentrate a little bit.
But even beyond the feat itself is the comparison with Luke struggling to do the same thing.
It compensates for nothing. In space there's no gravity, there's no air resistance, there's no pressure. Once you move something it keeps moving forever, and it's also far easier to move it in the first place.
You're welcome to show me which Young Earth Creationist textbook told you that there's no pressure (.i.e. force per area) in space. As with the rest of your response, you ignored the actual argument to just repeat yourself emphatically. The absence of a gravitational field doesn't negate the feat because in order to have used the freighter as a useful projectile, he would've had to accelerated it by far more than one g anyway, seeing as how starships maneuver at far more agile rates. Ergo, his feat is still more impressive than Cade's, even when you take into account gravity, and yes, even when you ignore the size difference between a shuttle and a freighter.
I mean, I don't think it's occurred to you that the acceleration of an object is still proportional to the force applied to it in "space", and there's no constant being added when air molecules aren't around. Your stance here is just unintelligible. What were you trying to get at?
Jaina Solo, who, as Sword of the Jedi, had proven time and again that she was the combat equal of anyone in the Order.
--Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse
So Jaina ~ Luke now? But what does this prove exactly - if Jaina really is Luke tier, how the hell would Kyp not being on her level be a mark against him?
Based on his superior feats across the board you fugg.
Well when you learn middle school physics you might think differently. 👆
So we've clearly gone over the:
1. Plethora of accolades from both trusted in-universe characters and out-of-universe narrators placing Kyp near the top in potential, and the knowledge that he a) learns incredibly fast and b) is middle aged by FotJ.
2. Ability to pull off spectacular feats in telekinesis such as manipulating artificial black holes with greater ease than Luke himself did, and ragdolling freighters for use as projectile weapons.
3. A lack of comparable feats on Cades's end.
I think this is a done deal.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Concession accepted. 👆You can't dismiss a plethora of in and out of universe declarations just because you don't like them. Sorry, not sorry.
I don't dismiss them, but potential is as irrelevant as it comes if he didn't achieve it. Kyp didn't.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
OK, so the only actual argument that you make here is that it was done in a "meditative state". That does matter, yes, but it's hardly as if we never consider feats performed under such conditions, or as if just meditating magically lets any Force user do anything. It's still a matter of fact that basically nobody else in the mythos has pulled off a comparable TK feat, meditation enabled or no. The monstrous showing of collapsing black holes capable of generating gravitational fields comparable to what we'd see from planetary bodies is not taken away because he had to concentrate a little bit.But even beyond the feat itself is the comparison with Luke struggling to do the same thing.
It matters, because Kyp clearly can't actualize that power in a combative scenario. It might be news to you, but force users can't always bring their full power to bear in a duel. Kyp never demonstrated he could.
That's why he's < Jaina.
Kyp could win a "who can lift the bigger rock" contest, but that's not what we are discussing.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
You're welcome to show me which Young Earth Creationist textbook told you that there's no pressure (.i.e. force per area) in space. As with the rest of your response, you ignored the actual argument to just repeat yourself emphatically. The absence of a gravitational field doesn't negate the feat because in order to have used the freighter as a useful projectile, he would've had to accelerated it by far more than one g anyway, seeing as how starships maneuver at far more agile rates. Ergo, his feat is still more impressive than Cade's, even when you take into account gravity, and yes, even when you ignore the size difference between a shuttle and a freighter.I mean, I don't think it's occurred to you that the acceleration of an object is still proportional to the force applied to it in "space", and there's no constant being added when air molecules aren't around. Your stance here is just unintelligible. What were you trying to get at?
First of all I was talking about air pressure, you could've guessed from the context, but it seems you rather just attack my intelligence. Good for you.
Anyhow everything you just said is a big pile of crap 👆
And yes gravity matters, it's a force which against you have to act when you TK something. Air resistance matters, it slows things down in case you didn't know that.
It's even noted in the text how it was easier:
Now he reached out with the Force and took hold of the dead freighter.
It shot forward with astonishing ease, moving steadily through the vacuum of space toward the shielded coral-skipper.
And as for your fanon on how much Kyp accelerated it to hit coralskipper I'd like you to prove it, since he actually needed help from a squad of x-wings to herd the ship so he can hit it:
The lieutenant spun off in a tight turn, his two surviving pilots following closely. They darted around the big coralskipper, cutting off its retreat, taking and returning fire from the other enemy skips. Their daring maneuvers soon exacted a price-lan's ship got caught in a Yuuzhan Vong crossfire. The double blast of plasma proved too much for his shields, and the ship dissolved in a bright splatter of plasma and superheated metal.
The pilots Lan had commanded doggedly held the course he'd plotted. The XJs continued to harry the big skip, forcing it to keep up its stuttering shields as the dead freighter closed in. At the last moment, the surviving X-wings shot away toward safety.
The freighter never got close.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
So Jaina ~ Luke now? But what does this prove exactly - if Jaina really is Luke tier, how the hell would Kyp not being on her level be a mark against him?
Luke wasn't part of the Order, nice try tho.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Well when you learn middle school physics you might think differently. 👆So we've clearly gone over the:
1. Plethora of accolades from both trusted in-universe characters and out-of-universe narrators placing Kyp near the top in potential, and the knowledge that he a) learns incredibly fast and b) is middle aged by FotJ.
2. Ability to pull off spectacular feats in telekinesis such as manipulating artificial black holes with greater ease than Luke himself did, and ragdolling freighters for use as projectile weapons.
3. A lack of comparable feats on Cades's end.
I think this is a done deal.
1. Irrelevant.
2. All of them with concentration and in space.
3. Actually every feat other than the Black Hole one Cade exceeds. By quite a bit.