Originally posted by Delta1938👆 Orion is superior
😆 No she's not. And even when she does, doesn't always help her. Like against Amazo with Superman's heat vision.Middle panel.
Abhi already showed that she basically is blocking where they aim. Also, I gave a better speed feat for Orion than you did. Because I actually gave one, not just threw around stuff without backing it up.
Originally posted by h1a8
She's blocking the hv in the scan.
Originally posted by Delta1938
😆 No she's not. And even when she does, doesn't always help her. Like against Amazo with Superman's heat vision.
Reread it.
Originally posted by h1a8
I proved Abhilegend wrong. You can't aim block energy beams coming from someone's eyes. The only way to block is to wait until it is in the air and then block. One writer's opinion doesnt affect other writer's opinions.
She's has blocked a hail of bullets blindfolded. She even lassoed Zoom (who is faster than Orion).
You didn't, actually. You wrote your fanfic and ignored all evidence while failing to provide an iota of your own. And good for her lassoing Zoom, when by your very own arguments that's PIS.
Originally posted by h1a8
Her strength compares to Orion's. She beat up on Hercules and bloodied him (who gave Superman a bloody nose). She beat up on Captain Nazi (who stalemated Black Adam to a double ko).
No it doesn't. I showed him going toe-to-toe with Superman when Wonder Woman needed a ****ton of help to barely restrain Superman after the Orion fight. And lol Hercules is definitely below Superman. So ****ing what he elbowed him in the nose? There's been so many examples that you've been shown that you ignore. Also, let's see some Wonder Woman/Hercules fights. And not the one where Hercules was fighting Circe, including getting blasted, and then when in a very vulnerable position pinning Circe, Wonder Woman comes in. Yeah, not a very good example. And Captain Nazi? You mean where the fight started with an experimental explosive that burned his face, and IIRC he was blind for a bit? Yeah, that's a solid example.
Originally posted by h1a8
1. AF is not hitting her.
Even if she blocks it, which she's definitely been hit without blocking, Malefic dropped her. Amazo with Superman's heat vision one-shot her. She might have partly blocked Ultraman, and he one-shot her, but either way you interpret it, it helps me, not you.
Originally posted by h1a8
2. She has the lasso for an easy win.
😖hifty:
You were saying?
Originally posted by h1a8
3. She is incredibly skilled and can end the fight with less attacks by attacking sensitive areas.
I don't know if she's ever even done what you argue, but hey, she's more skilled than a war god--
http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Heroes/Orion/WarGod
--who's skilled enough to match someone who's stronger than him and quite skilled himself? And I already showed how much stronger than Wonder Woman that Orion is.
Originally posted by h1a8
4. She can send the AF back at Orion.
5. She can parry and counter a punch thrown by Orion with a devastating attack.Her skill, strength, speed, reflexes, lasso, and bracelets combination give her the win.
You can say these all you want, but you can't back them up.
Originally posted by iceman24567
👆 Orion is superior
Bu-bu-bu-bu-bu-but bracers!! Skill and speed!! Stun/lasso combo FTW!!! 😱 😆
Originally posted by Delta1938
Reread it.You didn't, actually. You wrote your fanfic and ignored all evidence while failing to provide an iota of your own. And good for her lassoing Zoom, when by your very own arguments that's PIS.
No it doesn't. I showed him going toe-to-toe with Superman when Wonder Woman needed a ****ton of help to barely restrain Superman after the Orion fight. And lol Hercules is definitely below Superman. So ****ing what he elbowed him in the nose? There's been so many examples that you've been shown that you ignore. Also, let's see some Wonder Woman/Hercules fights. And not the one where Hercules was fighting Circe, including getting blasted, and then when in a very vulnerable position pinning Circe, Wonder Woman comes in. Yeah, not a very good example. And Captain Nazi? You mean where the fight started with an experimental explosive that burned his face, and IIRC he was blind for a bit? Yeah, that's a solid example.
Even if she blocks it, which she's definitely been hit without blocking, Malefic dropped her. Amazo with Superman's heat vision one-shot her. She might have partly blocked Ultraman, and he one-shot her, but either way you interpret it, it helps me, not you.
😖hifty:
You were saying?
I don't know if she's ever even done what you argue, but hey, she's more skilled than a war god--
http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Heroes/Orion/WarGod
--who's skilled enough to match someone who's stronger than him and quite skilled himself? And I already showed how much stronger than Wonder Woman that Orion is.
You can say these all you want, but you can't back them up.
Bu-bu-bu-bu-bu-but bracers!! Skill and speed!! Stun/lasso combo FTW!!! 😱 😆
If she's blocks it she can send it back at Orion, damaging him or his harness. This is a forum fight. She will be operating at energy beam blocking level. That means she will have ftl reflexes at all times and ftl movement with her limbs at all times. In comics she always has ftl limb speed and reflexes when it comes to energy beams but manages to get hit by slower moving objects for the sake of the plot.
There is no plot here. If she can block multiple light speed beams 100% of the time in comics then she can block much slower moving things 100% of the time. This is not debatable.
Anyway, WW fighting at her best wouldn't lasso his hand. She would lasso his entire body where he can't move. This could be after a stunning hit.
WW could easily ko Orion in a h2h fight. She's more skilled and is a much better defender, counter attacker, and comboer.
Originally posted by h1a8
If she's blocks it she can send it back at Orion, damaging him or his harness. This is a forum fight. She will be operating at energy beam blocking level. That means she will have ftl reflexes at all times and ftl movement with her limbs at all times. In comics she always has ftl limb speed and reflexes when it comes to energy beams but manages to get hit by slower moving objects for the sake of the plot.There is no plot here. If she can block multiple light speed beams 100% of the time in comics then she can block much slower moving things 100% of the time. This is not debatable.
Anyway, WW fighting at her best wouldn't lasso his hand. She would lasso his entire body where he can't move. This could be after a stunning hit.
WW could easily ko Orion in a h2h fight. She's more skilled and is a much better defender, counter attacker, and comboer.
Your entire argument comes down to unsubstantiated fanfic. Prove your argument or concede.
Also, Orion could just fix the Astro-Harness if it was even damaged.
Orion fighting at his best>>>Wonder Woman fighting at her best. You can't say she fights at her best and not give the same to Orion.
I'll just accept your concessions already, because all you do is ignore evidence and fail to present your own while writing-up your fanfic. So concessions accepted.
Originally posted by Delta1938Cant Orions motherbox repair his damaged harness and maybe even upgrade it?
Your entire argument comes down to unsubstantiated fanfic. Prove your argument or concede.Also, Orion could just fix the Astro-Harness if it was even damaged.
Orion fighting at his best>>>Wonder Woman fighting at her best. You can't say she fights at her best and not give the same to Orion.
I'll just accept your concessions already, because all you do is ignore evidence and fail to present your own while writing-up your fanfic. So concessions accepted.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Your entire argument comes down to unsubstantiated fanfic. Prove your argument or concede.Also, Orion could just fix the Astro-Harness if it was even damaged.
Orion fighting at his best>>>Wonder Woman fighting at her best. You can't say she fights at her best and not give the same to Orion.
I'll just accept your concessions already, because all you do is ignore evidence and fail to present your own while writing-up your fanfic. So concessions accepted.
He can't fix it in real battle time. There's no time. Remember WW has superspeed and can do actions in less than a microsecond.
What fanfic? WW blocks energy beams nearly 100% of the time in comics. There is no getting around that. In a forum, she would be operating with the same reflexes and speed.
Originally posted by h1a8
He can't fix it in real battle time. There's no time. Remember WW has superspeed and can do actions in less than a microsecond.What fanfic? WW blocks energy beams nearly 100% of the time in comics. There is no getting around that. In a forum, she would be operating with the same reflexes and speed.
WW's speed and strength are weak sauce compared to an all out Orion.
Originally posted by h1a8
He can't fix it in real battle time. There's no time. Remember WW has superspeed and can do actions in less than a microsecond.What fanfic? WW blocks energy beams nearly 100% of the time in comics. There is no getting around that. In a forum, she would be operating with the same reflexes and speed.
I was correct in accepting your concession ahead of time.
And since this is a forum fight, Orion goes intangible as he pleases, contains Wonder Woman in an Astro-Force force field that she can't escape, and creates miniature Boom Tubes all around her and in a pattern so he can simultaneously blast her with Astro-Force from all sides and angles. While she's in that force field.
I have a better chance of backing this than you do of backing any of your claims.
/thread
Originally posted by Delta1938
I was correct in accepting your concession ahead of time.And since this is a forum fight, Orion goes intangible as he pleases, contains Wonder Woman in an Astro-Force force field that she can't escape, and creates miniature Boom Tubes all around her and in a pattern so he can simultaneously blast her with Astro-Force from all sides and angles. While she's in that force field.
I have a better chance of backing this than you do of backing any of your claims.
/thread
1. Prove that he can go intangible.
2. Prove that he can do any actions while intangible.
3. Prove that he can contain her in a force field.
4.Prove that the force field is strong enough where she can't shatter it in a few attacks or less.
5. Prove that he can create miniature and multiple boom tubes.
6.Prove that he can use them to blast multiple Astro Force beams at her.
My claims are things WW has actually done a billion times.
1. Use ftl reflexes and arm speed to block multiple energy beams at a near 100% success rate.
2. Lasso enemies.
3. Parry attacks and counter them.
4. Deflect beams back at sender
5. Use skill and agility in fights.
6. Strike very sensitive areas (pressure points).
7. Use combinations effectively.
If I was using fanatic then non of that stuff would have occurred in comics multiple times.
If the board rules basically stipulate that Wonder Woman will use her speed as effectively as she can, I see little hope for Orion.
He may have a scan or two suggesting speed on this level, but it's hardly an established capability. I believe the full capacity rules only apply to well-established powers, and not just something that was only shown once or twice. And in a murky way, at that.
Sure, in the comics I think Orion is favored Pre-FP. But I see little hope when PIS is turned off, and the full capacity rule is in effect. Orion may have done better against Superman than WW, on average, but he's never faced any high-level brick in a fight where top-level super speed has been consistently used against him.
He's just never going to hit Diana here. Sure, the fight won't look like any fight we've seen in the comics, but that's how we roll here, right?
Originally posted by Delta1938
More and more, I'm honestly thinking H1 doesn't read comics. Carter? I shall never let him forget when he set himself up about not reading comics. 😄 😆And I can't really see them as close. Closer than the gap between Superman and Wonder Woman? Sure. But that's not saying a ton.
Orion has super speed. He rarely uses it, but he has it. His fight with Darkseid(who also rarely uses his super speed) was at super speed.
http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/library/Comparing/Heroes/Orion/Darkseid/ORION5
How fast is Darkseid? Well, one of the rare times he's used it, he moved so fast that Byrne era Superman didn't even see him move.
Lol Orion is not as fast as WW or anywhere close to it, none of the feats you provided show that. WW has a plethora of speed feats. Can you post multiple feats from Orion on her level?
Originally posted by h1a8
1. Prove that he can go intangible.
2. Prove that he can do any actions while intangible.
3. Prove that he can contain her in a force field.
4.Prove that the force field is strong enough where she can't shatter it in a few attacks or less.
5. Prove that he can create miniature and multiple boom tubes.
6.Prove that he can use them to blast multiple Astro Force beams at her.My claims are things WW has actually done a billion times.
1. Use ftl reflexes and arm speed to block multiple energy beams at a near 100% success rate.
2. Lasso enemies.
3. Parry attacks and counter them.
4. Deflect beams back at sender
5. Use skill and agility in fights.
6. Strike very sensitive areas (pressure points).
7. Use combinations effectively.If I was using fanatic then non of that stuff would have occurred in comics multiple times.
Nope. You back your case to someone who actually has given feats, before I post more scans.
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
If the board rules basically stipulate that Wonder Woman will use her speed as effectively as she can, I see little hope for Orion.
He may have a scan or two suggesting speed on this level, but it's hardly an established capability. I believe the full capacity rules only apply to well-established powers, and not just something that was only shown once or twice. And in a murky way, at that.
Sure, in the comics I think Orion is favored Pre-FP. But I see little hope when PIS is turned off, and the full capacity rule is in effect. Orion may have done better against Superman than WW, on average, but he's never faced any high-level brick in a fight where top-level super speed has been consistently used against him.
He's just never going to hit Diana here. Sure, the fight won't look like any fight we've seen in the comics, but that's how we roll here, right?
Based on what Pr and Bada have said, it doesn't seem that the rule works that way. Plus, Orion having so far fewer appearances would mean each example of him actually fighting at super speed holds more weight than one of Wonder Woman's does.
Originally posted by Surtur
Lol Orion is not as fast as WW or anywhere close to it, none of the feats you provided show that. WW has a plethora of speed feats. Can you post multiple feats from Orion on her level?
Orion was doing fine keeping-up with Darkseid. Are you saying Wonder Woman can move so fast that Superman can't even see her?
Originally posted by Surtur
*reads various replies in which her speed is ignored and people say Orion wins*Well okay, if you say so.
How about you help H1 then? Since he doesn't seem to know how to post scans, as not once in the past several debates he's posted evidence when asked to back his case. Even though it's not an official source, we'll use DC Wikia as a measure for how many appearances they have, just so we have something to work with. It gives Wonder Woman 1,283 and Orion 256 appearances. That's just over 5 times as many appearances for Wonder Woman.
Let's see you post 5 examples of Wonder Woman fighting at super speed, actually fighting, whether overwhelming an opponent with super speed, or fighting evenly with an opponent at super speed. Not her blocking, not her tackling or whatnot someone while flying in a straight line. Not tagging(or similar) a speedster as Batman's done shit like that. Actually fighting an opponent at super speed, and a clear example(so, fights with Superman don't count unless you can prove they're consistently fighting at super speed). Then we'll go from there. If she uses her speed so much, that should be easy for you to do. K?
Originally posted by Delta1938
Nope. You back your case to someone who actually has given feats, before I post more scans.Based on what Pr and Bada have said, it doesn't seem that the rule works that way. Plus, Orion having so far fewer appearances would mean each example of him actually fighting at super speed holds more weight than one of Wonder Woman's does.
Orion was doing fine keeping-up with Darkseid. Are you saying Wonder Woman can move so fast that Superman can't even see her?
How about you help H1 then? Since he doesn't seem to know how to post scans, as not once in the past several debates he's posted evidence when asked to back his case. Even though it's not an official source, we'll use DC Wikia as a measure for how many appearances they have, just so we have something to work with. It gives Wonder Woman 1,283 and Orion 256 appearances. That's just over 5 times as many appearances for Wonder Woman.
Let's see you post 5 examples of Wonder Woman fighting at super speed, actually fighting, whether overwhelming an opponent with super speed, or fighting evenly with an opponent at super speed. Not her blocking, not her tackling or whatnot someone while flying in a straight line. Not tagging(or similar) a speedster as Batman's done shit like that. Actually fighting an opponent at super speed, and a clear example(so, fights with Superman don't count unless you can prove they're consistently fighting at super speed). Then we'll go from there. If she uses her speed so much, that should be easy for you to do. K?
Why should I post scans on general knowledge? That's like asking you to post a scan of Superman lifting a car as proof to whether he can.
WW has blocked multiple beams of energy (including hv). No scans are needed.
WW has lassoed multiple beings. No scans are needed.
WW has struck Superman and others in very sensitive areas. No scans are needed.
WW has displayed the ability to parry attacks and counter attack. No scans are needed.
Lastly, you can't equate one character's showing with any other showing. DS moving to fast for Superman to see has absolutely nothing to do with Orion fighting DS in a totally different comic and scene. Otherwise, I can say that Colossus tanked planet destroying punches from Gladiator or IM hits harder than someone who can shatter worlds without touching them.
Characters operate at different levels at different times. Bryne Era Superman was KOed by a gas station. Thus it's not hard to believe that his reflex ability was subpar at times and pretty good at other times. Superman has had no problem seeing DS move in other scenes (even seeing DD move in some scenes).
Bottomline, Orion will not be moving faster than light in this fight. WW can block light speed attacks 100% of the time. WW has a lasso. WW can counter attack. Do the math.
Originally posted by h1a8
Why should I post scans on general knowledge? That's like asking you to post a scan of Superman lifting a car as proof to whether he can.WW has blocked multiple beams of energy (including hv). No scans are needed.
WW has lassoed multiple beings. No scans are needed.
WW has struck Superman and others in very sensitive areas. No scans are needed.
WW has displayed the ability to parry attacks and counter attack. No scans are needed.
Lastly, you can't equate one character's showing with any other showing. DS moving to fast for Superman to see has absolutely nothing to do with Orion fighting DS in a totally different comic and scene. Otherwise, I can say that Colossus tanked planet destroying punches from Gladiator or IM hits harder than someone who can shatter worlds without touching them.
Characters operate at different levels at different times. Bryne Era Superman was KOed by a gas station. Thus it's not hard to believe that his reflex ability was subpar at times and pretty good at other times. Superman has had no problem seeing DS move in other scenes (even seeing DD move in some scenes).Bottomline, Orion will not be moving faster than light in this fight. WW can block light speed attacks 100% of the time. WW has a lasso. WW can counter attack. Do the math.
Astro Force would devour her.
Darkseid himself doesn't have super speed. He doesn't magically get granted high end speed because in one instance Superman couldn't keep up with him. If that was the ONLY appearance in Darkseids history then sure, use it.
So, that was his only appearance, right? Dude showed up, showed FTL speeds, and never was seen again? Awesome.
ABC logic is not your friend, this isn't a dragonball Z fight.
