Originally posted by cs_zoltanFair enough, but I don't think Nihl could shit all over Kol if it was a fair 1v1. Nihl could probably still kill him with his lightning, if he actually landed it.
Kol was in a fight = he was battle ready = he had his defenses up. Using lightning from behind doesn't magically make it more powerful. The only cheap about it was that Kol couldn't block it with his lightsaber. Still Nihl is powerful enough to shit all over Kol any time he wants.
Originally posted by cs_zoltanThe choke seemed extremely brief, and it's actually very similar to what Kanan did to the Grand Inquisitor in Season 1, and the G.I. is actually confirmed as being far more powerful than Kanan at that point in time. Nihl choking an unsuspecting / unprepared Cade isn't worth much, really.
Ninja'd. So what if he wasn't? He still couldn't break out of it.Shit excuses you have Joker 🙂
Legacy is combatively underwhelming. Cade's cool, though. 🙂
Originally posted by ares834
He didn't ragdoll shit. He shot lightning at Kol when Kol was fighting other Sith and Stormtroopers. 😬So it seem not only are you reading a different Legacy series than Joker, you're reading a different one then me.
Mace was missing a hand and still took longer to die to Sidious than Kol. Shit argument is shit.
I never said it was unimpressive... I said:
Originally posted by ares834
Not sure how you came to that conclusion. We simply don't know enough about how powerful Kol is.
In reply to you post:
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Still Nihl is powerful enough to shit all over Kol any time he wants.
Just because his lighting can instakill Kol does not indiacte he can "shit all over Kol any time he wants" or "ragdoll" Kol. For example, Nyriss's lightning was capable of instakilling herself but clearly Nyriss would be incapable of ragdolling someone of her same power.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Considering oneshotting someone > ragdolling, yeah it does indicate that.
Nope. Different powers.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Nyriss went balls out with her lightning so she had no strength left to defend herself. In similar situation Dooku had no problem deflecting his own lightning.
And lo and behold, nothing indicates Kol even attempted to deflect his lightning.
Originally posted by ares834
Nope. Different powers.
So? Force Speed and TK are different powers too, yet there's no question what is more impressive, blitzing the B-Team or pushing droids.
Originally posted by ares834
And lo and behold, nothing indicates Kol even attempted to deflect his lightning.
Not with tutaminis, no. But he was combat ready so he had his shields up.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
So? Force Speed and TK are different powers too, yet there's no question what is more impressive, blitzing the B-Team or pushing droids.
😬
Because one is droids and the the other is the B-team... Honestly, are you just trolling? Regardless, when it becomes blitzing the B-team or ragdolling them the question becomes more difficult to answer.
And it still fails to address my initial point which was that they were two different power. To break it down further, just because Nihl has intense lightning does not indicate that his TK is at the same level.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Not with tutaminis, no. But he was combat ready so he had his shields up.
Because Ostrander, unlike Karpasyhn, actually knows how the force works. Regardless, how often have we actually seen a "shield" actually block lightning? Even Yoda is shown actively defending against lighting when battling Dooku or Sidious. The one time he doesn't he ends up on his ass.
Originally posted by ares834
😬Because one is droids and the the other is the B-team... Honestly, are you just trolling?
And one is just telekinetically thorwing someone around and the other is killing someone instantaneously...honestly are you just trolling?
Originally posted by ares834
And it still fails to address my initial point which was that they were two different power. To break it down further, just because Nihl has intense lightning does not indicate that his TK is at the same level.
There's nothing to address. Obviously powers are not at the same level across the board within a force users, but such disparity never happens unless someone is especially talented (like Bastila's BM or Corran's tutaminis) in one area or especially weak (like Corran's TK). Nihl was never stated to be especially talented with lightning or weak with TK.
Besdies he choked out Cade casually so it's not like he doesn't have any TK feat.
Originally posted by ares834
Because Ostrander, unlike Karpasyhn, actually knows how the force works. Regardless, how often have we actually seen a "shield" actually block lightning? Even Yoda is shown actively defending against lighting when battling Dooku or Sidious. The one time he doesn't he ends up on his ass.
https://youtu.be/MYw5KWTe15I?t=15s
https://youtu.be/eQATBFIZ13o?t=2m43s
https://youtu.be/9DI8kkR9G0Q?t=35s
https://youtu.be/T5SlaoV_o1M?t=5m55s
https://youtu.be/2g7BwwggxFI?t=20m52s
Notced how none of them died? I wonder why?
Maybe because the power disparity was nowhere near that large as between Nihl and Kol. Except with Arcann, where Valkorion didn't aim to kill. Which still prowes my point. Even if you don't block lightning with tutaminis or barrier there is still lightning not powerful enough to kill you.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
All Nihl's done so far is stomp Sazen and then later fight evenly with him (I think he fought evenly with him, I've forgotten already), and cheap shot Kol.
Ok, Nihl disarmed Sazen. Then second time, Sazen held him off while specifically fighting defensively and knowing Nihl'd win. He also beats Talon in sparing, and while wounded with shrapnel gave Cade a saber fight.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
You think Kol fighting others somehow makes Nihl oneshotting him less impressive. All it took away from him is that he couldn't block it with his lightsaber.
Not being able to block it- with saber *or* with active force power (which normally still involves a hand)- is a pretty major thing. Everyone's going to be messed up by lightning they don't block.
That said, the fact it only took one shot to drop him shows it's rather powerful force lightning.
Now I will also note that part of the reason he got that backshot is he previously tried to take Kol head on and got knocked down for his trouble- Nihl was just tough enough to not be KO'ed. So I am fairly confident that Kol > Nihl, just that Nihl has enough firepower to count when there's an opening.
Nihl had the time to focus, gather his power and wait for an opening to hit with the Lightning. Kol was focused on a huge shitload of other Sith he was fighting, kinda hard to deflect Lightning when you defend against horde of lightsabers :/
We know Nihl had enough power to kill Kol with his lightning. Did he have enough skill, power and mastery to hit him with that in a regular fight? We dont know.
The feat with choking Cade is weak as ****... Usually when someone is in a Choke he can't escape until the user is distracted. He choked him when he was unaware, focused on a fight with another opponent. That's worse than Kenobi's "feat" of bisecting TPM Maul XD
I might buy that Cade couldn't break out even if he was powerful enough if there weren't other examples of Force users doing just that, or the text stating they could if they had the power; e.g Starkiller repulsed out of Vader's choke in a second despite being caught off-guard, and Caedus could have broken out of Luke's grip if he was powerful enough, but he was forced to acknowledge that he wasn't.
Why is Cade any different? He may have been caught off-guard, like Starkiller and Caedus, but they had the opportunity to break out; why didn't Cade?
There's also other examples where Force users who are far more powerful couldn't break out of a Force grip from someone who was inferior, i.e. Kanan and the Inquisitor, so obviously it isn't the same for everyone. Basically, my thing is that Nihl's choke was at an opportune moment, where vastly inferior foes have taken advantage of their superiors, and even still it seemed incredibly brief. Really the only way you can try to put stock into the feat is when you try the "well, he couldn't break out of it" argument, which I don't really buy as a reason I should be impressed given how short the choke was and the other example of Kanan and the Inquisitor, where the Inquisitor couldn't break out either after a prolonged Force grip, despite being "far more powerful".
Originally posted by |King Joker|If we're trying to mingle canon examples in with Legends, which I find to be a practice in futility a lot of the time, I would consider the option that at that moment, Kanan was just the stronger of the two. He clearly has greater inherent ability than the Inquisitor, by a long-shot, but on average he's outclassed due to far inferior training. He was desperate in the moment he pinned him because he cares about Ezra, so perhaps his true power shown through however briefly?
There's also other examples where Force users who are far more powerful couldn't break out of a Force grip from someone who was inferior, i.e. Kanan and the Inquisitor, so obviously it isn't the same for everyone. Basically, my thing is that Nihl's choke was at an opportune moment, where vastly inferior foes have taken advantage of their superiors, and even still it seemed incredibly brief. Really the only way you can try to put stock into the feat is when you try the "well, he couldn't break out of it" argument, which I don't really buy as a reason I should be impressed given how short the choke was and the other example of Kanan and the Inquisitor, where the Inquisitor couldn't break out either after a prolonged Force grip, despite being "far more powerful".
Otherwise, it's contradictory to Legends, which canon doesn't acknowledge, so it doesn't have to play by the same rules. If you can show me a Legends example of a weaker Force user pinning a stronger one because they caught them off-guard, I'm all ears.