Originally posted by Selenial
That doesn't mention him being hindered at all, compared to his Jedi self. It merely talks of potential.
He's obviously not fully committed to the dark side - ie. he still has some of his Jedi self in him, which was part of the hindrance when he fought Obi-Wan. It's obvious that he's not at his peak here. He's literally crying as he butchers the Jedi.
Originally posted by SunRazer
He's obviously not fully committed to the dark side - ie. he still has some of his Jedi self in him, which was part of the hindrance when he fought Obi-Wan. It's obvious that he's not at his peak here. He's literally crying as he butchers the Jedi.
Fully committing to the Dark Side isn't really relevant when discussing if he's hindered, there's no relationship between Knightfall Vader and Anakin to prove if he was truly less skilled or powerful.
Seeing as his "peak" in Palpatine's eyes was above Yoda, no, he's evidently not at his peak...
@Nova
1. Drallig got near blitzed, tbh. And yeah, she's a clear inferior, but Ahsoka would be too.
2. She's landed more concrete blows on Vader. And when did Vader give her pauses? The only pauses that were present was when she Force Pushed Vader, and then Clone Troopers had to interfere before she could strike him down; and when Vader pushes her, which she got back up from nigh-instantly.
And she might've been enraged but that usually off-balances Jedi, not to mention Morne just came out of stasis after millennia of not using a lightsaber and kept getting distracted by Muur taunting her the entire time.
3. Shaak's considerable advantage over Galen, and being far more formidable/powerful than beings like Kazdan Parastus or Rahm Kota comes to mind.
Originally posted by SunRazer
him stomping Drallig in spite of his emotional/mental conflict is a good feat for him, nothing else. It doesn't discredit the hindrance, lol.
I'm saying even his hinderance shouldn't matter that much because he's murked beings like Drallig.
Originally posted by Selenial
Fully committing to the Dark Side isn't really relevant when discussing if he's hindered, there's no relationship between Knightfall Vader and Anakin to prove if he was truly less skilled or powerful.Seeing as his "peak" in Palpatine's eyes was above Yoda, no, he's evidently not at his peak...
Yes, it is. Not being fully committed to the dark side was an integral part of Anakin's hindrance on Mustafar. Palpatine was wrong when he thought that Knightfall would tie Anakin to the dark side completely.
The peak that he hadn't reached? Yeah, not referring to that. He's obviously not as good as say, when he fought Dooku.
Originally posted by MythLord
[B]@Nova1. Drallig got near blitzed, tbh. And yeah, she's a clear inferior, but Ahsoka would be too. I'm saying even his hinderance shouldn't matter that much because he's murked beings like Drallig.
2. She's landed more concrete blows on Vader. And when did Vader give her pauses? The only pauses that were present was when she Force Pushed Vader, and then Clone Troopers had to interfere before she could strike him down; and when Vader pushes her, which she got back up from nigh-instantly.
And she might've been enraged but that usually off-balances Jedi, not to mention Morne just came out of stasis after millennia of not using a lightsaber and kept getting distracted by Muur taunting her the entire time.
3. Shaak's considerable advantage over Galen, and being far more formidable/powerful than beings like Kazdan Parastus or Rahm Kota comes to mind.
[/B]
1. Hence why I dropped the point, because the disparity between Shaak and Anakin isn't explored. Although wasn't Cin the greatest swordsmaster in the Temple during the operation?
2. Celeste is on the floor more than once, IIRC, and Vader just stands there waiting for her to attack him again. He knocks her down again, etc - it reeks of toying.
3. Considerable? She ended up throwing herself on his blade out of desperation, lol. She was definitely better, but not by the margin you're suggesting, especially considering that the environment favored her.
This version of Galen was equal with Rahm Kota and being outpaced by Kazdan, anyways. I can't see him contending with Vader in the slightest. Ahsoka's still better.
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Hence why I dropped the point, because the disparity between Shaak and Anakin isn't explored. Although wasn't Cin the greatest swordsmaster in the Temple during the operation?2. Celeste is on the floor more than once, IIRC, and Vader just stands there waiting for her to attack him again. He knocks her down again, etc - it reeks of toying.
3. Considerable? She ended up throwing herself on his blade out of desperation, lol. She was definitely better, but not by the margin you're suggesting, especially considering that the environment favored her.
This version of Galen was equal with Rahm Kota and being outpaced by Kazdan, anyways. I can't see him contending with Vader in the slightest. Ahsoka's still better.
1. Perhaps the greatest technical swordsmaster, but Shaak's performance is suppose to be superior -- what with her lasting long enough to save several padawans and Knights and only fleeing once she realized the Temple was completely lost.
2. She was actually only on the floor once, and got back up pretty quickly. It doesn't reek of toying; especially not when Celeste had him on the floor and vulnerable at one point, had the Troopers not interfered.
3. Actually, Ti's plan was to skewer the flacker before his blade impales her. But Galen was lucky/desperate, and pushed her blade aside, and Shaak's leap continued and she got pierced... Also, let's just take in for a minute how impressive it is on Ti's part to get pierced by a lightsaber blade and still stand and talk, ultimately only dying because of suicide.
And the environment didn't favour her. Was the world a Light Side Nexus? Perhaps, but it was her presence that made it that way, hence she'd be amplifying herself off of her own power... which doesn't make sense.
And Galen improved from stalemating Rahm Kota, and was only outpaced by Kazdan because Kazdan kept using droid replicas of the Jedi Council attack Galen from the back, and otherwise Marek was on the winning side.
Not to mention Shaak's own canonical superiority to both Rahm and Kazdan, to the point where she's far more formidable, would suggest she's pretty considerably ahead of first mission Marek. You know, the guy who makes TIE-fighters and armies of hundreds of droid gollums look like toys? He's below Shaak Ti. 👆 Hence why I consider Shaak the more powerful Force user, and at least a comparable swordsman.
Also, regarding Galen versus Vader... how much do you think Galen improved between his fights with Vader and Shaak? He didn't go on too many missions, or fight too many opponents to gain a vast improvement, nor is the Chosen One to go from getting stomped to stomping in like a week, or a Sith'Ari to go all Gary-Stue and suddenly stomp someone he was losing to after two training sessions. There's certainly a noticeable difference, but then again there's a noticeable difference in Canon and Legends Vader in terms of power, speed and skill.
I'm referring to her actually surviving a supposed confrontation with Vader long enough for several Jedi and padawans to flee. And the databanks notes she only fled once it became apparent the Temple was completely lost, by which point she'd be overrun by Clones.
Comparing that to Drallig, who got two-shotted... yeah... not quite as impressive.
Originally posted by MythLord
I'm referring to her actually surviving a supposed confrontation with Vader long enough for several Jedi and padawans to flee. And the databanks notes she only fled once it became apparent the Temple was completely lost, by which point she'd be overrun by Clones.Comparing that to Drallig, who got two-shotted... yeah... not quite as impressive.
A supposed confrontation....from an obscure comic panel, I'm not really taking that as evidence they ever even encountered one another.
The panel could mean anything, it was noted she was in deep meditation at the time, maybe that was just sensing him or something as the attack was going on. Maybe it was just a way to show Anakin just having fallen to the dark side and become Darth Vader. Who the hell knows.
Her rallying Jedi to her would mean she has backup, so I don't see how she would fight Anakin alone there.
It makes more sense and evidence supports, that she just fought against the Clones with her fellow Jedi before doing evacs and fleeing.
On that note, I did try and message Haden Blackman about it to see what that panel was suppose to be about...I doubt I'll get an answer but we'll see, I can never get an answer to any SW question like others do on here from authors.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
A supposed confrontation....from an obscure comic panel, I'm not really taking that as evidence they ever even encountered one another.The panel could mean anything, it was noted she was in deep meditation at the time, maybe that was just sensing him or something as the attack was going on. Maybe it was just a way to show Anakin just having fallen to the dark side and become Darth Vader. Who the hell knows.
Her rallying Jedi to her would mean she has backup, so I don't see how she would fight Anakin alone there.
It makes more sense and evidence supports, that she just fought against the Clones with her fellow Jedi before doing evacs and fleeing.
On that note, I did try and message Haden Blackman about it to see what that panel was suppose to be about...I doubt I'll get an answer but we'll see, I can never get an answer to any SW question like others do on here from authors.
See, the problem with that is: it's your conjecture that she was just sensing Anakin. That scan in the comic has a rundown of all of Ti's accomplishments over the Clone Wars: a fight with Grievous, the training of Clone Troopers, her defense of Kamino, etc. It has Shaak Ti, surrounded by flames, an activated lightsaber and Anakin angrily looking at her right there in the center. Seems like they've fought.
She rallied to the Jedi to fight against the onslaught of Vader and his Clones; she obviously wouldn't survive against both Vader and an armada of Clone Troopers at the same time. And like I said, she only fled once she realized the Temple was completely lost, to the point that fighting would've ultimately been a fruitless endeavour.
BTW, how do you get a writer's email?
LEGENDS
Best combatant Count Dooku can defeat? Obi-Wan Kenobi, Naga Sadow, Darth Malak on Star Forge
Best combatant Anakin can defeat? Exar Kun, Starkiller
Best combatant Asajj Ventress can defeat? Kit Fisto
Best combatant Revan can defeat? Count Dooku, Arcann, maybe Exar Kun?
Best combatant Exar Kun can defeat? Probably same as Revan
Best combatant Shaak Ti can defeat? ROTS: Qui-Gon Jinn, Jaden Korr, Kenth Hamner, TFU: Plo Koon, Asajj Ventress, Savage Opress
Best combatant Darth Plagueis can defeat? Pre-TPM Sidious, Darth Krayt?
CANON
Best combatant Count Dooku can defeat? Obi-Wan Kenobi, Rebels Ahsoka
Best combatant Anakin can defeat? same
Best combatant Asajj Ventress can defeat? Grievous
Best combatant Shaak Ti can defeat? Magna Guard
Re: Best combatant .... can defeat
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Best combatant Count Dooku can defeat?Best combatant Anakin can defeat?
Best combatant Asajj Ventress can defeat?
Best combatant Revan can defeat?
Best combatant Exar Kun can defeat?
Best combatant Shaak Ti can defeat?
Best combatant Darth Plagueis can defeat?
Arcann
Sidious, without the prophecy bs Mace
Fisto
Kun, Caedus
With hax and trinkets JA Luke, without that Dooku
Meetra
Vader, Krayt
1. Kenobi tier duelists (Malgus, Jaina, Ulic, Mara Jade, Cade Skywalker etc)
2. Mace Windu/Count Dooku probably anyone below that doesn't eclipse him with force feats
3. Probably Sora Bulq/Darth Nihl
4. No Idea and don't really care
5. Probably Kao Cen Darach, Kas'im tier characters and below
6. Vader, Mace, Dooku