Originally posted by MythLord
And Vader couldn't defend against that with a Barrier, why?
Originally posted by MythLord
No shit Sherlock, but 'Killer's usual lightning barrages, or just in general feats of raw power, eclipse short-circuting ships and killing fodder.
I recall Starkiller electrocuting an AT-ST (and its crew) in a battle and activating a machine in another event. In both of these cases, Starkiller focused entirely on the targets, sending multiple bolts into them.
Valkorion unleashed his FLS on Arcann and the latter's defenses deflected its bolts around. Even a single residual bolt of that FLS was enough to down a large Starship mid-flight. Valkorion's bolts (while being deflected by Arcann) cleared the entire space route in the vicinity. You can infer that a large number of Starships were downed. Do keep in mind that Starships are much better shielded than ground vehicles on average and Valkorion was not able to bring his entire power to bear in this particular clash for some reason.
Starkiller have nothing on Valkorion. Not even close.
Originally posted by MythLord
Dooku's should be of similar height as Arcann's, and Asajj's is unknown. And they didn't willfully go kamikaze and leap off massive heights, lmao. Dooku just fought both Mace and Kenobi and sustained several close range explosions before the platform he was standing on, and he himself plummeted to the ground. And Asajj got bombarded by an enraged Anakin's assault, after one of her arms got nearly snapped like a twig.
Lmfao I'd say I can't believe this barrier thing is a debate when Vader has tanked two of the most potent dark side explosions known in mythos but this is the TOR fanboys so I'm not surprised.
1. The energy unleashed by the Malachor Sith superweapon was not normal energy considering its ability to turn people into ****ing stone, it was evidently of the dark side. It was also powered by a giant (Force-resonant) kyber crystal, eight of which powered the planet-busting Death Star and the explosion of one of which did this.
Notice how those TIE's were vaporised. Valkorion short-circuiting vessels does not compare. Noting that that kyber crystal wasn't even weaponised.
2. The explosion Marek unleashed upon his death that Vader withstood meters from the epicenter, and in a significantly weakened state, (I assume that's what people were referring to, if not a reminder) does not represent Marek's standard ability. But that point he had entered Oneness, allowing him to harness power far greater than anything he'd ever experienced before:
Taken from The Force Unleashed novelisationAnd considering that at his peak Starkiller vaporised a 300m frigate, it again makes Valkorion's light show look pretty shitty. Finally:Energy surged through him. He felt as though a star had blazed to life in his chest. Driven by concern for his friends rather than himself, he embraced the Force completely, utterly, and was rewarded with strength that made his efforts with the dark side look like those of a child. His nerves were on fire. Streamers of light radiated from his skin. His bones glowed like radiant lava.
He saw rather than felt the massive shock wave that consumed a large portion of what remained of the observation dome. A glowing bubble of fire tore the stormtroopers to shreds and engulfed Vader and the Emperor. Shrapnel filled the air like dust caught in the beam of the Death Star's powerful laser.
Originally posted by ares834👆
LmaoAhsoka pulled this off in season 1 of TCW...
Yeah, neither Arcann nor the Outlander have anything on Vader I'm afraid. 🙂
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lmfao I'd say I can't believe this barrier thing is a debate when Vader has tanked two of the most potent dark side explosions known in mythos but this is the TOR fanboys so I'm not surprised.1. The energy unleashed by the Malachor Sith superweapon was not normal energy considering its ability to turn people into ****ing stone, it was evidently of the dark side. It was also powered by a giant (Force-resonant) kyber crystal, eight of which powered the planet-busting Death Star and the explosion of one of which did this.
Notice how those TIE's were vaporised. Valkorion short-circuiting vessels does not compare. Noting that that kyber crystal wasn't even weaponised.
2. The explosion Marek unleashed upon his death that Vader withstood meters from the epicenter, and in a significantly weakened state, (I assume that's what people were referring to, if not a reminder) does not represent Marek's standard ability. But that point he had entered Oneness, allowing him to harness power far greater than anything he'd ever experienced before:And considering that at his peak Starkiller vaporised a 300m frigate, it again makes Valkorion's light show look pretty shitty. Finally:👆
Yeah, neither Arcann nor the Outlander have anything on Vader I'm afraid. 🙂
Yet:
Vader prepared for combat again. His power over the apprentice, however, was gone. His lightsaber went skittering and sparking across the floor, twisted out of his grip by telekinesis. The Force wrenched him into the air, as he had once lifted the apprentice's father, and a barrage of missiles struck at him with increasing strength. He raised his gloved hands to defend himself, but the battery continued until, with a crash, the apprentice ripped the energy field generator in the center of the room right out of the floor and hurled it at his former Master.
The generator exploded with greater force than he had expected, throwing him and everyone else to the floor. The transparisteel dome shattered. Debris rained everywhere. The sound of the explosion rang in his ears for an unnaturally long time afterward.
He was the first to his feet, striding across the rubble to where Darth Vader lay face-forward, gravely wounded and stripped of his armor in places. Flesh and machinery showed through the gaps. Finally, some real blood was flowing.
The apprentice stood over him with his lightsaber upraised and ready to strike. His former Master was trying to stand, feebly willing his massive bulk to move as it was supposed to. Servomotors whined and strained. When he rolled over, the apprentice froze.
Taken from Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
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I suppose that Jedi Master Ood Bnar is the most powerful Force-user ever because he endured a supernova event. 🙄
Or
Perhaps those civilians were most powerful beings in the galaxy who survived attack of a superweapon that wrecked the entire planet (Hint: Uphrades).
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Seriously, learn to distinguish between events of shock-value (to spice-up storytelling) and actual limitations of a character.
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As for Starkiller blowing that frigate apart; it was already in the process of disintegration due to forces of gravity acting against it during its fall. Starkiller blew apart a 150m long segment of it but its integrity was (logically) compromised.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am largely aware of Starkiller's showings. Those revelations do not contradict my point.
Except it outright does... You implied his best feat was electrocuting an ATAT crew when its downing the supports of orbital superstructures, powering machines capable of piercing the hull of an ISD and powering the hyperdrive engines of a frigate so large it would have taken him hours to get around.
You have yet to prove that the ships Valkorian's lightning hit even had their shields on. I mean, why would they on a bustling city planet they're docking in?
You have yet to prove it wasn't simply the lightning coursing through the ships and killing the pilots that caused the ships to crash but actual damage to the ship like you seem to be assuming.
Also your assumption that the area was cleared out because Valkorian's lightning downed all the ships in it is ridiculous levels of reaching. It's far more logical that upon seeing a lightning storm around the area the ships decided to - I don't know - leave it? Lol.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't recall saying Vader was invulnerable to all forms of explosion,
Your point flopped.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
so your non-answer aside Vader has tanked energy well in excess of what Arcann has managed, I'm sorry this upsets you.
This is not a 'who endured what' argument. It is about superiority of Valkorion over Starkiller and inferred limitations of Darth Vader against such a foe.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
But sure the ship had broken up, still beats > short circuiting vessels.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDSeriously? Your first mistake is comparing Legends to Canon. On top of that in your example Vader was exhausted and vulnerable, not so on Malachor. Finally he failed to erect a Force barrier, wheres on Malachor it would have been necessary.
So explosion of a generator is more potent than that of a superweapon on Malachor? Good.Your point flopped.
An apples and oranges comparison, as you would put it.
Show me proof of Darth Vader tanking FLS of a Palpatine-TIER (or superior) Force-user.When Arcann manages that I will, but until then I'm at a loss as to why I should bother.This is not a 'who endured what' argument. It is about superiority of Valkorion over Starkiller and inferred limitations of Darth Vader against such a foe.
And it's a question of whether Vader could have endured Valkorion-lite's power, in which case he'd manage just fine. A comparison between vanilla Starkiller and Valkorion being irrelevant, as Valkorion was severely weakened and Starkiller in a state of Oneness, gosh.
Apples and oranges comparison. Force Lightning and Telekinesis are two entirely different Force powers and affect external objects/environment in a vastly different manner.It's all Force energy dear, and the repulse Marek unleashed on the Death Star took the Form of a lightning maelstrom:
👆
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Except it outright does... You implied his best feat was electrocuting an ATAT crew when its downing the supports of orbital superstructures, powering machines capable of piercing the hull of an ISD and powering the hyperdrive engines of a frigate so large it would have taken him hours to get around.
"I recall Starkiller electrocuting an AT-ST (and its crew) in a battle and activating a machine in another event. In both of these cases, Starkiller focused entirely on the targets, sending multiple bolts into them.
Valkorion unleashed his FLS on Arcann and the latter's defenses deflected its bolts around. Even a single residual bolt of that FLS was enough to down a large Starship mid-flight. Valkorion's bolts (while being deflected by Arcann) cleared the entire space route in the vicinity. You can infer that a large number of Starships were downed. Do keep in mind that Starships are much better shielded than ground vehicles on average and Valkorion was not able to bring his entire power to bear in this particular clash for some reason.
Starkiller have nothing on Valkorion. Not even close."
- you did not understand?
The only feat of Starkiller that is relevant for comparison here is him electrocuting an AT-ST with Force Lightning. Here are the details:
Automated weapons emplacements spotted him instantly. Red weapons fire stitched lines of explosions across the station's patchwork hull as he ducked between the AT-AT's massive legs. Scooping up components from the nearest construction conveyor belt, he threw a series of high-speed missiles at the turrets, knocking five out of commission. A stream of Sith lightning put the AT-AT itself out of action, and a good, solid shove tipped it over with a crash, providing cover for the Wookiees when the time came to cross.
The quartet had already started firing at stormtroopers converging on the scene. A furious exchange of blasterfire painted the air thick with energy. The apprentice deflected anything headed his way as he hacked into the side of the AT-AT and dropped into its munitions bay. The crew within was no threat, killed by the lightning, but he was careful not to knock any of the charges in case their contents had become unstable. He didn't want it to blow up just yet.
Taken from Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
Starkiller's other showings like powering-up machines (and such), are irrelevant examples to consider. Such showings only tell us that Force Lightning can utilized as a source of power for machines.
Now, tell me! Disabling a single AT-ST is a more impressive showing or disabling scores of Starships is?
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
You have yet to prove that the ships Valkorian's lightning hit even had their shields on. I mean, why would they on a bustling city planet they're docking in?
Any traveler would be alert to developments within the spaceport.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
You have yet to prove it wasn't simply the lightning coursing through the ships and killing the pilots that caused the ships to crash but actual damage to the ship like you seem to be assuming.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Also your assumption that the area was cleared out because Valkorian's lightning downed all the ships in it is ridiculous levels of reaching. It's far more logical that upon seeing a lightning storm around the area the ships decided to - I don't know - leave it? Lol.
Did you even play the game?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Seriously? Your first mistake is comparing Legends to Canon.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
On top of that in your example Vader was exhausted and vulnerable, not so on Malachor. Finally he failed to erect a Force barrier, wheres on Malachor it would have been necessary.An apples and oranges comparison, as you would put it.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
When Arcann manages that I will, but until then I'm at a loss as to why I should bother.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
And it's a question of whether Vader could have endured Valkorion-lite's power, in which case he'd manage just fine.
The day when Darth Vader tanks Palpatine's powers, let me know.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
A comparison between vanilla Starkiller and Valkorion being irrelevant, as Valkorion was severely weakened and Starkiller in a state of Oneness, gosh.
Force powers are certainly manifestations of Force energy but they significantly vary in nature and their effects.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
It's all Force energy dear, and the repulse Marek unleashed on the Death Star took the Form of a lightning maelstrom:👆
Friend, I've already explained the argument to you, do your best to employ memory recall. The explosion Vader tanked on Malachor and the energy Marek unleashed on the Death Star > what Valkorion unleashed on Arcann in terms of potency. A simple comparison makes that quite obvious. So Vader's shown the ability to withstand more potent Force energy than Arcann, simple. On the other hand downing a bunch of starships does not make your lightning Palpatine-tier, not when it couldn't overpower a sub-Yoda Force user.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Friend, I've already explained the argument to you, do your best to employ memory recall.The explosion Vader tanked on Malachor and the energy Marek unleashed on the Death Star > what Valkorion unleashed on Arcann in terms of potency. A simple comparison makes that quite obvious. And downing a bunch of starships does not make your lightning Palpatine-tier, not when it couldn't overpower a sub-Yoda Force user.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Thanks, you can PM me your concession if you like.
The explosions that Darth Vader tanked on Malachor and Death Star are not valid analogues to Valkorion's FLS and tanking it, because they are not similar manifestations of energy.
Show me an example of Palpatine's Force Lightning downing/disabling scores of Starships mid-flight.
You are underestimating defensive abilities of Arcann, it is that simple.