Outlander/Arcann/Malgus vs. Vader/Dooku/Maul

So why are we only allowed to look at lightning tanking feats? If anything, your attempt to dissociate lightning feats from other applications of the Force just renders your entire argument moot, since Vader isn't even going to use lightning on Arcann; he's going to use telekinesis.

Now, given your own [bizarre] dismissal of any correlation between different kinds of Force abilities, we have to just look directly at Arcann's telekinetic showings, which are very minimal compared to Vader's. We therefore conclude that Vader snaps his pitiful neck without ever needing to care about his ability to block lightning that can kill humans in cockpits.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
LOL

The explosions that Darth Vader tanked on Malachor and Death Star are not valid analogues to Valkorion's FLS and tanking it, because they are not similar manifestations of energy.

Show me an example of Palpatine's Force Lightning downing/disabling scores of Starships mid-flight.

You are underestimating defensive abilities of Arcann, it is that simple.

And overloading Yoda's tutanimis > downing starships. This is also elementary.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
So why are we only allowed to look at lightning tanking feats? If anything, your attempt to dissociate lightning feats from other applications of the Force just renders your entire argument moot, since Vader isn't even going to use lightning on Arcann; he's going to use telekinesis.

Now, given your own [bizarre] dismissal of any correlation between different kinds of Force abilities, we have to just look directly at Arcann's telekinetic showings, which are very minimal compared to Vader's. We therefore conclude that Vader snaps his pitiful neck without ever needing to care about his ability to block lightning that can kill humans in cockpits.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Seriously? Your first mistake is comparing Legends to Canon.

😕

You did the same thing?

Also the lightning didn't even physically damage the ships, it just killed the crew members, possibly by conducting through the hulls. So yeah, Galen taking out AT-AT's with lightning is far more impressive.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
😕

You did the same thing?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What part of this statement:

"I recall Starkiller electrocuting an AT-ST (and its crew) in a battle and activating a machine in another event. In both of these cases, Starkiller focused entirely on the targets, sending multiple bolts into them.

Valkorion unleashed his FLS on Arcann and the latter's defenses deflected its bolts around. Even a single residual bolt of that FLS was enough to down a large Starship mid-flight. Valkorion's bolts (while being deflected by Arcann) cleared the entire space route in the vicinity. You can infer that a large number of Starships were downed. Do keep in mind that Starships are much better shielded than ground vehicles on average and Valkorion was not able to bring his entire power to bear in this particular clash for some reason.

Starkiller have nothing on Valkorion. Not even close."

- you did not understand?

The only feat of Starkiller that is relevant for comparison here is him electrocuting an AT-ST with Force Lightning. Here are the details:

Automated weapons emplacements spotted him instantly. Red weapons fire stitched lines of explosions across the station's patchwork hull as he ducked between the AT-AT's massive legs. Scooping up components from the nearest construction conveyor belt, he threw a series of high-speed missiles at the turrets, knocking five out of commission. A stream of Sith lightning put the AT-AT itself out of action, and a good, solid shove tipped it over with a crash, providing cover for the Wookiees when the time came to cross.

The quartet had already started firing at stormtroopers converging on the scene. A furious exchange of blasterfire painted the air thick with energy. The apprentice deflected anything headed his way as he hacked into the side of the AT-AT and dropped into its munitions bay. The crew within was no threat, killed by the lightning, but he was careful not to knock any of the charges in case their contents had become unstable. He didn't want it to blow up just yet.

Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Force Unleashed

Starkiller's other showings like powering-up machines (and such), are irrelevant examples to consider. Such showings only tell us that Force Lightning can utilized as a source of power for machines.

Now, tell me! Disabling a single AT-ST is a more impressive showing or disabling scores of Starships is?

Asylum was a space-port above a gas giant. It became a battleground before the confrontation between Arcann and the Outlander.

Any traveler would be alert to developments within the spaceport.

How the hell Force Lightning struck the pilots in the first place? Did it teleport inside?

Right.

Did you even play the game? [/B]

Did you not* Please learn grammar Legend.

The ability to power a machine capable of such allows us to estimate how much energy was behind the feat. This is basic logic.

I'd say Galen powering the hyper drive of an enormous frigate massively pre prime and destroying supports that were several stories high and thicker then a TIE is better actually.

Fair enough.

Maybe it coursed through the conductive material called metal that makes up the outer layer of ships? Lol.

You haven't addressed my point.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Gosh give it up LeG. If Vader had tanked more potent Force energy, in whatever form, than what Valkorion unleashed on Arcann, he can withstand what Valkorion unleashed on Arcann. That is basic shit that even you can work out.

In real life, energy exists in different forms such as light, heat, mechanical, gravitational, electrical, sound, chemical, nuclear and vice versa. Can you expect a living being to have similar level of resistance against all forms of energy? I do not.

Analogy: Queen Hornet is a bee that is strong and deadly enough to kill hundreds of Honey Bees single-handedly but it cannot tolerate as much heat as a Honey bee can.

Similarly, Force powers differ from each other in nature and their isn't a universal defense against all of them. Your examples reveal that Darth Vader can shrug-off a potent explosion of Dark Side energy through his defenses, but they (in no way or form) affirm that he can deflect Palpatine-TIER Force Lightning.

First, learn a thing or two about Force lightning:

Force Lightning causes excruciating pain as it weakens an individual's life, and is nearly impossible to deflect.

Taken from Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to Force

&

Called "Sith lightning," these charges cause excruciating pain and weaken life, and it is a challenge for even the most powerful Jedi Masters to deflect such bursts.

Taken from Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide

No where it is stated that explosions of Dark Side energy - that Darth Vader shrug-off - were manifestations of Force lightning.

Even the likes of Yoda and Revan could not shrug-off Palpatine-TIER Force lightning. I don't fancy Darth Vader's chances against it either.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And overloading Yoda's tutanimis > downing starships. This is also elementary. Legend's argument essentially implodes on itself yeah. We only need ask him what evidence he has that Arcann could have withstood the energy explosions Vader did on Malachor and the Death Star for proof of that.

Don't try to lecture me about elementary when you are presenting illogical arguments to make your case.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Also the lightning didn't even physically damage the ships, it just killed the crew members, possibly by conducting through the hulls. So yeah, Galen taking out AT-AT's with lightning is far more impressive.

SWTOR game engine is not powerful enough to simulate such complex forms of destruction. You only get an idea of what happened to the target through in-game dialogue.

For example: Valkorion's attack (Chapter 1) not just killed Darth Marr but also destroyed his body, but we don't see destruction of Darth Marr's body on-screen. However, Darth Marr confirmed this during a conversation with the Outlander as a Force ghost (Chapter 12).

Vitiate's Force lightning - centuries before his prime - was potent enough to superheat metal and/or melt it. This was implied in a novel.

Once again, by your own logic, Arcann's lightning defense has nothing to do with his telekinetic defenses, which are what actually matter here since Vader won't be using lightning.

So going by your own logic, what are Arcann's TK defense feats? None? Oops - I guess Vader just snaps his neck, right?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
🙄

SWTOR game engine is not powerful enough to simulate such complex forms of destruction. You only get an idea of what happened to the target through in-game dialogue.

Blowing up ships is beyond TOR's game engine? 😆

If you're not going to use visuals, what dialogue tells us that the ships were physically destroyed?

Considering Vaylin is ripping down skyscraper sized buildings, and is Arcann's inferior, I doubt that.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Blowing up ships is beyond TOR's game engine? 😆

If you're not going to use visuals, what dialogue tells us that the ships were physically destroyed?

Nah he's on point, when the Knights of Zakuul come to surround them and Valkorion roflstomps them, there are meant to be hundreds, but in the scene there aren't even forty.

But where does it say Arcann is better at telekinesis? Given that Legend is trying to prevent us from observing that a user's abilities in different areas of the Force are correlated with one another.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nah he's on point, when the Knights of Zakuul come to surround them and Valkorion roflstomps them, there are meant to be hundreds, but in the scene there aren't even forty.

Wasn't it said somewhere that OCW represented Lucas's original vision for the Jedi?

Then he, as usual, changed his mind. He went and dumped the series in the trash and replaced it with TCW, which is actually canon.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Blowing up ships is beyond TOR's game engine? 😆

If you're not going to use visuals, what dialogue tells us that the ships were physically destroyed?

Now, try to comprehend my argument:

"SWTOR game engine is not powerful enough to simulate such complex forms of destruction. You only get an idea of what happened to the target through in-game dialogue.

For example: Valkorion's attack (Chapter 1) not just killed Darth Marr but also destroyed his body, but we don't see destruction of Darth Marr's body on-screen. However, Darth Marr confirmed this during a conversation with the Outlander as a Force ghost (Chapter 12).

Vitiate's Force lightning - centuries before his prime - was potent enough to superheat metal and/or melt it. This was implied in a novel."

I don't like repeating a point again and again. You claim to be an intellectual, you should not have any trouble in understanding my point then.

The kind of detail you are looking for can only be found in a novel or in conversations.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have played many games and I can testify that SWTOR game graphics are substandard. Its particle physics are simply terrible.

So you're telling me that the programmers at Bioware couldn't make some plumes of smoke fly out of the ship, and for the hulls to get damaged?

There's "substandard" and then there's "inept to the point of ridiculousness - oh, wait, because Legend is just making up a BS excuse to peddle his pet theory again!"

Now, try to comprehend my argument:

SWTOR game engine is not powerful enough to simulate such complex forms of destruction. You only get an idea of what happened to the target through in-game dialogue.

For example: Valkorion's attack (Chapter 1) not just killed Darth Marr but also destroyed his body, but we don't see destruction of Darth Marr's body on-screen. However, Darth Marr confirmed this during a conversation with the Outlander as a Force ghost (Chapter 12).

Vitiate's Force lightning - centuries before his prime - was potent enough to superheat metal and/or melt it. This was implied in a novel.

I don't like repeating a point again and again. You claim to be an intellectual, you should not have any trouble in understanding my point then.

Nice job dodging my question: where's the dialogue telling us that the ships were physically destroyed?

That Vitiate uninjured could superheat metal isn't as impressive as taking out military grade, armored starships from hundreds of meters away, .i.e. your original claim, is it? Another classic Legendism.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Once again, by your own logic, Arcann's lightning defense has nothing to do with his telekinetic defenses, which are what actually matter here since Vader won't be using lightning.

So going by your own logic, what are Arcann's TK defense feats? None? Oops - I guess Vader just snaps his neck, right?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
So you're telling me that the programmers at Bioware couldn't make some plumes of smoke fly out of the ship, and for the hulls to get damaged?

There's "substandard" and then there's "inept to the point of ridiculousness - oh, wait, because Legend is just making up a BS excuse to peddle his pet theory again!"

Nice job dodging my question: where's the dialogue telling us that the ships were physically destroyed?

That Vitiate uninjured could superheat metal isn't as impressive as taking out military grade, armored starships from hundreds of meters away, .i.e. your original claim, is it? Another classic Legendism.

Regarding limitations of the game graphics, I supported my stance with example of Darth Marr. Are you not paying attention?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You expect Force lightning to blow Starships apart now? You have seriously lost it.

That was YOUR claim, sweetie. Just saying that the visuals aren't disproof isn't enough; you still haven't provided active evidence for your case, to which you have the burden of proof.

Now, have you given up yet?