Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I think it can go either way. Since Valkorion can teleport, he could just go to the other side of the planet and attack Skywalker that way.
When has he teleported such distances and effectively harmed Force users thereafter?
But I guess we could just as easily say that Luke could fold space some sharp objects into Valkorion's brain.
Revan and the Dread Masters, both inferior to Vitiate, showed the ability to teleport across battlefields and landscapes.
The Dread Masters brought the Hero to their knees across the galaxy. Revan can use Force drain across a solar system.
I assume Valkorion could replicate such, being more powerful and more masterful.
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Teleportation and Fold Space seems to have the unspoken rule that such isn't possible.
I'm inclined to believe this is because there's an aura around a Force user that the technique can't penetrate.
Plus, Skywalker ripping through the fabric of space onto Vitiate suggests penetrating his defenses anyway.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'm inclined to believe this is because there's an aura around a Force user that the technique can't penetrate.
Which works both ways if you're going to argue that Valkorion will just snipe Luke from across the planet. Luke can do that back too, so it just circles back to the question of which is more powerful, which you know I answer to be Luke.
Eh ok, by pointing out that tactic on Valkorion's part, you presumably thought it heightened his odds of success.
My case for Luke is that he has vastly superior combat feats, particularly when we remove nexuses from Valkorion's reach, and that powerscaling puts him above Palpatine and to a level of actualized Force potential never seen before. Probably the big ones for Luke
- Pinning Caedus to his chair
- That massive Vader fortress feat
- Black hole manipulation
- Resisting UnuThul's TK
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well Skywalker's lightsaber skills is an obvious massive edge that Valkorion's tactic would render mute.
It's Force only, but I assume you're referring to his using the saber for defensive purposes? That would only matter against Valkorion's lightning, and if he teleports away he probably can't use it to any meaningful level anyway.
I don't consider any of the feats listed more impressive than what Valkorion did to Ziost. They're hard to compare, though.
I think Ziost was done on a nexus, while harnessing from the energies of the populace, and over a long period of time. It's also reasonable to think that it involved a ritual like what we saw on Nathema, given their similarities.
I never saw it was Force only. My apologies. Ignore what I said earlier, then.
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As we've discussed before, I believe the nexus and the populace simply brought Vitiate back to a base level, and the end product was the creation of Valkorion.
I don't see any indication it took a long period of time or it consisted of a ritual, since the destruction of Ziost wasn't at all like what occurred on Nathema.
I'm not sure a Sith spirit can even perform a ritual, actually.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
As we've discussed before, I believe the nexus and the populace simply brought Vitiate back to a base level, and the end product was the creation of Valkorion.
That's possible, though it would beg the question of why Vitiate didn't just do this earlier. Well, I guess any interpretation would beg that question.
It's tough to tell whether his being weakened was more severe than the amp he got from the nexus and the populace. I don't think you can use it to justify Vitiate's power if you can't establish that he wasn't being amped over his base form.
I don't see any indication it took a long period of time or it consisted of a ritual, since the destruction of Ziost wasn't at all like what occurred on Nathema.
There may have been some differences, but the overall result was incredibly similar (as was his mentally dominating a bunch of people and consuming their energies), and so it would be a stretch in my opinion to just assume that he did it on his raw power this time. I think it's pretty reasonable to see someone doing a similar thing twice, and guessing that they used a similar method.
I'm not sure a Sith spirit can even perform a ritual, actually.
I don't see why not.
Originally posted by darthbane77
Luke wins the initial fight BARELY, but based on "Visions in the Dark"; Valkorion can come back as a spirit and use at least a large portion of his power for combat. So spirit Valk could potentially show up and kill Luke.
GG
Yes, the fact that Luke and Taalon know the mindwalking ability is perfect for me, because they are the only two Jedi/Sith beings I put above Sidious and Valkorion, so the argument that their opponent can't destroy their spirits after their physical bodies are killed falls flat with Luke and Taalon.
Originally posted by darthbane77
Luke wins the initial fight BARELY, but based on "Visions in the Dark"; Valkorion can come back as a spirit and use at least a large portion of his power for combat. So spirit Valk could potentially show up and kill Luke.
Spirit Valkorion would be weaker; he was significantly weakened in his loss to the Hero, for instance.