Originally posted by abhilegend
Ah yes, Cap is deus ex machina but Batman isn't.Feel free to discard everything Batman has done and see if I care.
Don't be an ass just to be an ass. Were debating, you put forth you're ideas, and if i disagree i put forth mie and we go form there.
So, i'll stick behind my stance, that 90% of Bruce's feats and his family for that regard or just stupid pis. What's worse, unlike Cap, he has no Deus Ex Machina to fall back on.
Re: Re: If Batman is 100
Originally posted by Supermutant
Nightwing 90Wildcat 95
Crossbones 94
Daredevil 93
Captain America 125
Bane 100, DCNU 125
Kazar 96
Killer Croc 110
KG Beast 90
Deathstroke 105
Wolverine 125
Blockbuster mostly 200
Midnighter mostly 115
not to disrespect just to sharpen my knowledge. you think Cap and wolverine are physically stronger than killer croc? i remember croc tearing off vault doors, lifting cars above his head and throwing them, i know he is a loser but only strength wise i think he is stronger than that dont you think?
Originally posted by riv6672
I'd think so. Not sure how strong, though, as he varies from what you described to way lower.
his low showings are of him getting beat up. however strength wise alone, i dont recall him having any strength feats to suggest he is weaker than a peak human - very low super man levels of wolverine and Cap.
Originally posted by riv6672
True, getting beat up isnt concrete proof, but its enough ti make it diffucult (for me) to pin a number on him.
i see. think about it as rhino. we all know rhino is like what, class 80? but he gets beat up by Cap and whos not. so i understand why its hard to think of him as strong. the writers should remember there is such thing as power levels and try to overcone the urge to just show the good guys kick the bad guys ass.
Re: Re: Re: If Batman is 100
Originally posted by Dareangel
not to disrespect just to sharpen my knowledge. you think Cap and wolverine are physically stronger than killer croc? i remember croc tearing off vault doors, lifting cars above his head and throwing them, i know he is a loser but only strength wise i think he is stronger than that dont you think?
Hush virus Killer Croc and some other versions are stronger, but I have also seen Croc not being strong enough to break out of a choke hold from Harvey Dent. Also, Croc not being able to break free from ropes, and Bane has overpowered him many times and broke his arm before. Moreover, Zsasz managed to stalemate Croc in a test of strength.
So even Killer Croc's strength jobs a lot. 😄
Re: Re: Re: Re: If Batman is 100
Originally posted by Supermutant
Hush virus Killer Croc and some other versions are stronger, but I have also seen Croc not being strong enough to break out of a choke hold from Harvey Dent. Also, Croc not being able to break free from ropes, and Bane has overpowered him many times and broke his arm before. Moreover, Zsasz managed to stalemate Croc in a test of strength.So even Killer Croc's strength jobs a lot. 😄
chocking him out is not about strength but technique. you can chock out a stronger opponent. still you believe wolverine and cap are stronger than him. you think wolverine and cap cant be chocked out with the right technique by someone with the strength of two face? let it be reminded some of the best MA fighters in marvel have average human strength. its not the strength but the technique. of course you wont seehulk getting chocked out like that, but i dont think its a feat that pust his strength below wolverine or cap.
the ropes thing? how many times did we see wolverine tied up? of course there are feats where wolverine breaks chains. but there are other showings where he is easily tied up with a single rope. i think both cap and wolverine would be stuck if they would be tied up by their nack, arms, legs with several knots at each. no tearing thru that.
actually we see croc overpower zsasz if anything.
bane breaking his arm on juice is nothing amazing since bane on juice is stronger than him. bane on juice is a super human who can lift like 3 tons easily.
yeah killer croc has lower showings like the ones you posted and some higher and much higher. but overall i dont see any of them putting him at strength levels below the average strength showings of wolverine and cap. he sucks at fighting that for sure. i always saw him as a less skilled sabretooth to be honest. at least as far as strength goes. both have good strength feats while at times they seem to be just slightly above human strength.
Nightwing 85-100
Wildcat 90
Crossbones 78, to more recently 130
Daredevil 90-100
Cap America 200-300
Bane 90-375 (skill and physical Enhancements, make him quite dangerous on the lower levels.).
Kazar 90 (based largely on skill to deliver) Kazar's problem is largely due to a lack of long standing appearances. Could it be his fashion sense? Cast your vote.
Killer Croc 90 (based also on skill to deliver) Croc is easily defeated by skilled opponents.
KG Beast 125
Deathstroke 170
Wolverine 150-1000+ The most dangerous by far. When Wolverine becomes lost in a berserk frenzy, he doesn't take that much damage, unless the character hitting him can break his skeleton. Because of this, Wolverine can actually hit at class 100 levels. This is well above any of these guys.
Blockbuster 1,000-5,000? Not very familiar with this character. Was this the guy that mutated further in the Inferno? If so. I tend to agree. But I'd still give odds to Wolverine being on the top of the list of being the most dangerous.
Midnighter 250-300
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If Batman is 100
Originally posted by Dareangel
chocking him out is not about strength but technique. you can chock out a stronger opponent. still you believe wolverine and cap are stronger than him. you think wolverine and cap cant be chocked out with the right technique by someone with the strength of two face? let it be reminded some of the best MA fighters in marvel have average human strength. its not the strength but the technique. of course you wont seehulk getting chocked out like that, but i dont think its a feat that pust his strength below wolverine or cap.the ropes thing? how many times did we see wolverine tied up? of course there are feats where wolverine breaks chains. but there are other showings where he is easily tied up with a single rope. i think both cap and wolverine would be stuck if they would be tied up by their nack, arms, legs with several knots at each. no tearing thru that.
actually we see croc overpower zsasz if anything.
bane breaking his arm on juice is nothing amazing since bane on juice is stronger than him. bane on juice is a super human who can lift like 3 tons easily.
yeah killer croc has lower showings like the ones you posted and some higher and much higher. but overall i dont see any of them putting him at strength levels below the average strength showings of wolverine and cap. he sucks at fighting that for sure. i always saw him as a less skilled sabretooth to be honest. at least as far as strength goes. both have good strength feats while at times they seem to be just slightly above human strength.
Notice I wrote nothing about the choking and stated that Croc couldn't break out of the hold. If he is as constantly strong as you claim, he should had flexed normal human Harvey Dent off of him. Or break Dent's arm to get free.
Speaking of a broken arm, notice how pre-52 Bane (who is way stronger now) easily caught Croc's attempted punch and broke his arm with only one hand. And before you mention venom again, during their second fight Croc destroyed Bane's venom injection and this happened again.
Yeah like you with mentioned Wolverine and I'll add Cap they have more feats of breaking free for being tied up with chains and such. Croc can do it but he isn't strong enough to do it all the time. He even had to bite off his own hands to escape normal looking chains before.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zmhfCGROTBw/UAh7U6wzjjI/AAAAAAAAASg/WZl15l267Fs/s1600/image2+(2)23.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/64770/1664832-killercroc4.jpg
Take another look at the Zsasz scan. Z holds his own with his hand around Croc's throat and moves him closely to the wall.
Like I said previously there are some versions of Croc that are at Wolverine's strength level or stronger. Like when Croc was trading punches with Black Adam jr. But Croc doesn't have the consistent feats especially pr-52 to have a strength advantage on Wolvie, and have been weaker than Bane every time even when Poison Ivy had weaken Bane recently.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If Batman is 100
Originally posted by Supermutant
Notice I wrote nothing about the choking and stated that [b] Croc couldn't break out of the hold. If he is as constantly strong as you claim, he should had flexed normal human Harvey Dent off of him. Or break Dent's arm to get free.Speaking of a broken arm, notice how pre-52 Bane (who is way stronger now) easily caught Croc's attempted punch and broke his arm with only one hand. And before you mention venom again, during their second fight Croc destroyed Bane's venom injection and this happened again.
Yeah like you with mentioned Wolverine and I'll add Cap they have more feats of breaking free for being tied up with chains and such. Croc can do it but he isn't strong enough to do it all the time. He even had to bite off his own hands to escape normal looking chains before.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zmhfCGROTBw/UAh7U6wzjjI/AAAAAAAAASg/WZl15l267Fs/s1600/image2+(2)23.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/64770/1664832-killercroc4.jpgTake another look at the Zsasz scan. Z holds his own with his hand around Croc's throat and moves him closely to the wall.
Like I said previously there are some versions of Croc that are at Wolverine's strength level or stronger. Like when Croc was trading punches with Black Adam jr. But Croc doesn't have the consistent feats especially pr-52 to have a strength advantage on Wolvie, and have been weaker than Bane every time even when Poison Ivy had weaken Bane recently. [/B]
first of all about croc not breaking out of that hold. as we can see in the scans he is not trying to break from that hold. his arms are so huge he probably couldnt even reach two face little arms on his back. if they showed croc grabbing harveys arms and cant break out of the hold then you would have a point. however once again, in the scans he is not even trying. maybe too big to reach, maybe too dumb, either way it has nothing to do with his strength and mostly his lack of skills and the fact he needs to breath.
yes i see bane broke his arm without the venom. and thats indeed a low showing for crocs durability more than his strength. however i was never arguing that croc doesnt have low showings. my argument was that he is overall on average, if we take into account all his showings is strength wise above cap and wolverine. i understand that its hard for people to think that way because he is losing all his fights. but this is another rhino case. we saw rhino getting jobbed to death and knocked out easily by captain america. so do we say he is weaker? as for this scan i will mention again. getting his arm broken by bane even without the venom, still doesnt put his strength wise under cap or wolverine. remember when spider man got his arm broken same way by jigsaw in the prison fight? so now spiderman is weaker because his arm got broken? crappy durability perhaps. and once again low showings are everywhere to anyone. you are just posting the lowest of croc to prove that he has low showings? we all know that.
i will point out again that both wolverine and cap has many showings of them being chained and not breaking out of that. specially ropes are getting yourself free from ropes is harder than chains. chains can be broken by breaking the weakest link in them. ropes that are holding your neck arms and legs are much harder to tear. even spiderman was tied with less than that and couldnt break free.
again, you brought the low showings of croc and mention the everage high of wolverine and cap. i am a new member and still cant post scans. but croc has showings of tearing off its place a vault door which weights several good tons. getting hit by a sledgehammer to the face and commenting he barrely felt that. overpowering batman easy and holding him with 1 arm pinned to a wall without batman being able to break free. breaking thru a brick wall. biting solomon grundy by the neck and easily toss him. its also funny because in the other thread of wildcat vs daredevil, you posten the cage fight between wildcat vs batman. however in the same run there is a fight between wildcat and croc. croc grabs wildcat by his waist and crack his ribs just from that hold while wildcat is hurt and scream. can cap and wolverine do that? as we see aside of your several low showings the majority and average showings for killer croc, strength wise not fighting wise easily shows he is stronger than wolverine and cap easily.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If Batman is 100
Originally posted by Dareangel
first of all about croc not breaking out of that hold. as we can see in the scans he is not trying to break from that hold. his arms are so huge he probably couldnt even reach two face little arms on his back. if they showed croc grabbing harveys arms and cant break out of the hold then you would have a point. however once again, in the scans he is not even trying. maybe too big to reach, maybe too dumb, either way it has nothing to do with his strength and mostly his lack of skills and the fact he needs to breath.yes i see bane broke his arm without the venom. and thats indeed a low showing for crocs durability more than his strength. however i was never arguing that croc doesnt have low showings. my argument was that he is overall on average, if we take into account all his showings is strength wise above cap and wolverine. i understand that its hard for people to think that way because he is losing all his fights. but this is another rhino case. we saw rhino getting jobbed to death and knocked out easily by captain america. so do we say he is weaker? as for this scan i will mention again. getting his arm broken by bane even without the venom, still doesnt put his strength wise under cap or wolverine. remember when spider man got his arm broken same way by jigsaw in the prison fight? so now spiderman is weaker because his arm got broken? crappy durability perhaps. and once again low showings are everywhere to anyone. you are just posting the lowest of croc to prove that he has low showings? we all know that.
i will point out again that both wolverine and cap has many showings of them being chained and not breaking out of that. specially ropes are getting yourself free from ropes is harder than chains. chains can be broken by breaking the weakest link in them. ropes that are holding your neck arms and legs are much harder to tear. even spiderman was tied with less than that and couldnt break free.
again, you brought the low showings of croc and mention the everage high of wolverine and cap. i am a new member and still cant post scans. but croc has showings of tearing off its place a vault door which weights several good tons. getting hit by a sledgehammer to the face and commenting he barrely felt that. overpowering batman easy and holding him with 1 arm pinned to a wall without batman being able to break free. breaking thru a brick wall. biting solomon grundy by the neck and easily toss him. its also funny because in the other thread of wildcat vs daredevil, you posten the cage fight between wildcat vs batman. however in the same run there is a fight between wildcat and croc. croc grabs wildcat by his waist and crack his ribs just from that hold while wildcat is hurt and scream. can cap and wolverine do that? as we see aside of your several low showings the majority and average showings for killer croc, strength wise not fighting wise easily shows he is stronger than wolverine and cap easily.
lol Now you are just saying the same things over in long paragraphs. Also you ask for examples, and I showed them. Your only reply is that basically Croc has some better strength showings. Which is the same thing that I and others have said from the beginning. His strength varies and is inconsistent like Blockbuster, like Solomon Grundy for example.
So I would put him lower than Wolverine based off of lacking consistent strength feats. And the fact that Bane has physically dominated him and broken his arms three time, on and off Venom.
Show scans of Croc grabbing Wildcat and cracking his ribs just from that hold, b/c that didn't happen. Wildcat beat the hell out of him in the cage and beat another big dude after that who created that cage fight. If anything Wildcat strength should be higher on my list, his punching power is impressive.
Now you are just saying the same things over in long paragraphs.
...Which is the same thing that I and others have said from the beginning. His strength varies and is inconsistent...
Still love me some Croc, though.
Originally posted by abhilegend
If all you have is random strength feats, Batman can match almost any strength feat Cap has.
👆
You know guys, abhi does make a very good point here...
Are we debating how these characters should be or are we debating where they all stand based on feats? There is a big difference...
If we are going off of feats, then Bats can match or exceed virtually any feat Cap has...
In which case Bats strength number would be equal to or greater than Caps...
If we are going off of where we feel they should be relative to who they are (ie, Cap is enhanced via the Super Soldier Serum, while Bats is just a peak human), then yeah...Caps number should be greater than Bats.
So what exactly are we looking for?
Afterall, Batman has the following to his name and I cant recall Cap doing something this outrageous:
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