Originally posted by SunRazer
History would suggest that it is.
Active Force moves have been tipping points before without a huge disparity in power: Sidious vs. Yoda, Satele vs. Malgus, Maul vs. TPM Obi Wan, sort of Galen vs. Vader, Sidious vs. Talzin, etc.
But yeah, it does seem to happen less often than just winning or losing a straight up duel, but that might be more due to the choices of the combatants.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Active Force moves have been tipping points before without a huge disparity in power: Sidious vs. Yoda, Satele vs. Malgus, Maul vs. TPM Obi Wan, sort of Galen vs. Vader, Sidious vs. Talzin, etc.But yeah, it does seem to happen less often than just winning or losing a straight up duel, but that might be more due to the choices of the combatants.
Satele lost to Malgus, Galen beat Vader through Dun Moch, and Sidious vs Talzin is not a conventional fight (it was pretty much Force only).
Sidious vs Yoda is a good one, but the Force advantage was bigger than the saber advantage (if there was one). Maul vs TPM Obi-Wan? Maul was better in everything.
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Vader is a very different combatant to Ahsoka. I'm pretty sure Maul would do better against a less mobile opponent who he can match in pain tolerance and strength.
Maul isn't Vader's equal in physical fortitude by any stretch of the imagination. Maul might have to worry about his own mobility, since he couldn't even stop himself from being thrown off the edge by Kanan 🙂
Originally posted by SunRazer
Satele lost to Malgus,
Yeah, I guess.
Galen beat Vader through Dun Moch,
They both used the Force pretty liberally; they didn't seem to think it was pointless.
and Sidious vs Talzin is not a conventional fight (it was pretty much Force only).
Yeah, but why?
Sidious vs Yoda is a good one, but the Force advantage was bigger than the saber advantage (if there was one).
I don't think that changes the point. Yoda having a larger saber advantage wouldn't have changed what happened on that last senate pod (unless if this advantage also translated into Yoda putting his guard up).
Maul vs TPM Obi-Wan? Maul was better in everything.
He won with a push; the two were dueling pretty evenly.
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
But still, when you think of the hard on Filoni has for Ahsoka and the hate he has for Maul, for them to be roughly 'equal' during that short bout says a little something.
And yet, despite his hard-on for Ahsoka, he was willing to concede her inferiority to Vader, evidently. That says something as well.
You have nowhere to run, lol.
@Ell - Galen didn't win until he used Dun Moch, which was the primary factor.
Why was Sidious vs Talzin unconventional? Because it was Force only, lol.
TPM Obi-Wan was enraged against Maul, and Maul decided to exploit an advantage when Obi-Wan "left himself open to counterattack", per Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force.
If one goes by the assumption that Yoda held the advantage in a lightsaber contest, then that would explain why he was winning in the Grand Senate podium, and forced Sidious to relocate to a higher location where it became an exclusively Force-only battle. That was when Sidious gained the upper hand.
Originally posted by SunRazer
@Ell - Galen didn't win until he used Dun Moch, which was the primary factor.
The point is that both thought that Force attacks were worth using, despite the parity.
He didn't win with a Force move, but his saber skill wasn't the tipping point either...
Why was Sidious vs Talzin unconventional? Because it was Force only, lol.
But your logic would predict that Sidious would just go in and dice her.
TPM Obi-Wan was enraged against Maul, and Maul decided to exploit an advantage when Obi-Wan "left himself open to counterattack", per Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force.
Yeah, so that's a potential application. It doesn't have to be an emotional instability.
If one goes by the assumption that Yoda held the advantage in a lightsaber contest, then that would explain why he was winning in the Grand Senate podium, and forced Sidious to relocate to a higher location where it became an exclusively Force-only battle. That was when Sidious gained the upper hand.
Yeah, so that's an example where the Force advantage won because of the environment.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
The point is that both thought that Force attacks were worth using, despite the parity.
I didn't say anything about what was worth using. I'm talking about who tends to win.
He didn't win with a Force move, but his saber skill wasn't the tipping point either...
Well, for one, how do you establish which is more skilled and which is more powerful? My conditions were very clear - X is slightly better at dueling, and Y is slightly better at the Force. All of your examples don't fit that criteria.
But your logic would predict that Sidious would just go in and dice her.
He kind of did at the beginning, but I know that's circumstantial. Although they never engaged in a traditional duel like most combatants after Talzin left Dooku's body, so this example isn't usable 😬
Yeah, so that's a potential application. It doesn't have to be an emotional instability.
Maul was better at everything, though, not just the Force. It doesn't fit my criteria of one combatant being the better duelist and the other being the better Force user.
Yeah, so that's an example where the Force advantage won because of the environment.
Indeed.