Star Wars Miniatures Ultimate Missions Quotes

Started by DarthAnt666 pages

Well, in fairness, he also says "which explanation is cooler" is a factor, which basically sounds like "pick the explanation you like most!"

While he has the ability to deem a source canon because he likes it more, we don't, so we must use the amount of sources for reference to be objective.

The disparity here is that I don't view the script as a primary source. It's an old prototype of the fight with a number of significant changes being made to it, and it's not even canon. At best, it's tertiary, for me. And the comic and junior novel (to an extent) follow that, whereas the adult novel seems to follow the movie, which is the only primary source here.

A script is considered a primary source, since secondary sources like the junior novel and comic are derived from it.

- "In the arts, typical primary sources would be paintings, musical scores or recordings, and scripts." (http://library.missouri.edu/guides/primarysources/)

- "Scripts, press kits, and posters are considered primary sources for film research." (http://libguides.bgsu.edu/c.php?g=227176&p=1505849)

- "Primary Sources in Film Studies... and television/movie scripts." http://libguides.lib.msu.edu/c.php?g=95833&p=624749)

Furthermore, your argument doesn't make much sense. The adult novel, which you cite as the leading secondary source, is the prime piece of evidence on why Skywalker is greater than Yoda, which has been a hotly contested point. By accepting said work as a leading secondary source, along with accepting the Revenge of the Sith novelization as another credible secondary work, Skywalker's vast superiority to Dooku and notable superiority to Yoda is evident and indisputable, thus rendering your tertiary source irrelevant.

I have three more quotes about this being a draw. And as I said, the script is tertiary for me. So primary has Dooku contending, secondary has Dooku being outclassed (one contending source versus two outclassing sources), and tertiary is filled with support for Dooku contending. So I think that's the majority there.

I, likewise, have numerous tertiary sources stating Dooku nearly lost his life, so I don't think our discussion can be decided on that unless we want to count all five-hundred sources describing the fight.

Lightsaber combat is pretty random. Inferior duelists can usually drive back superior ones is they take them by surprise, which Obi-Wan did against Dooku.

Which work describes him taking Dooku by surprise? That seems to be in the minority.

Also, clarify what this point holds in regards to the overall debate. What are you trying to dispute?

The movie does have Anakin contending, but the junior novel explains that Dooku was toying with Anakin. So it's questionable here.

The junior novel shows Skywalker pushing Dooku back when taken by surprise, but ultimately was no match in the end. I never got the impression he was toying.

Even if we want to write off the junior novel as Dooku beating him easily, in which I'd disagree with, Skywalker contending is still in the majority.


Also, are you of the thought that if there's, say, 10 tertiary sources, does that override 1 primary source, or do you believe that any single source, as long as it's primary, takes precedence over an infinite amount of "lesser sources"? And what about secondary sources?

That's certainly a good question. I'm not sure I can give an overall answer - just one on a case by case basis.

For the content we are dealing with, there's not an unprecedented number of tertiary sources disputing claims from primary or secondary.

When inconsistency is found, it's generally evenly split or a majority is well aligned with leading sources.

I'm pretty sure he did. I don't have quotes on hand, though.

Well, I just did a search across all my Star Wars works on my computer, and no results for Skywalker using Djem So were found in any books predating 2008 besides the Revenge of the Sith novel. If anyone can confirm some Clone Wars novel refers to Skywalker's use of Djem So, please let me know. It should be noted ahead of time that I would be unlikely to accept an encyclopedic work, such as The Clone Wars character encyclopedia or Visual Guide, as proof of his utilization of Djem So, due to sake of consistency with how we're handling this debate with primary, secondary, and tertiary sources. Only novels, really.

Otherwise, Skywalker would have completely mastered Djem So between Dark Disciple and Revenge of the Sith, proving my point of a mass skill increase above Dooku.

I'll respond later.

I might consider responding in full tomorrow, but I did find the quote about Maul's skills:

Sidious put his hands on his hips. "Stand, Darth Maul, and face me." He gave his apprentice a moment to comply before continuing. "Thus far your apprenticeship has been impeccable. You have never wavered in your intent, and you have executed your tasks flawlessly. Your skill as a sword master is peerless."

-- Darth Maul: Saboteur

Legends =/= Canon, don't work.

Yes, yes "TCW is a hybrid!"

Which I think is a bunch of bull(with few small exceptions).

@Neph - A better display than Dooku failing to sense Hondo's pet stealing his lightsabers, or Anakin failing to beat Clovis in unarmed combat. lmfao

Is it though? 😬

Maul failing to finish off a trained Bounty Hunter is better than Anakin being unable to even get a Senator into that prone position to begin with.

Anakin whooped Clovis, actually.

After an embarrassing back-and-forth between the two.

Although, granted, it was Padme's calling that made him hesitate and allow Clovis to strike back, IIRC.

Embarrassing all the same.

Not really. It was an emotionally draining situation in hand to hand combat. As compared to say, missing someone over and over again with a ****ing laser sword, it's really not that bad.

"Emotionally draining" lmao.

Nova is right, Clovis was holding is own. And Dooku getting pick-pocketed by a monkey takes the biscuit.

Yeah, for some reason Anakin cares about issues involving his wife.

And so? That wasn't the point being made.

Originally posted by SunRazer
After an embarrassing back-and-forth between the two.

Although, granted, it was Padme's calling that made him hesitate and allow Clovis to strike back, IIRC.

Embarrassing all the same.

Clovis got like one hit in, IIRC.

Nah, he got in 3 hits, though one was when Anakin was distracted by Padme.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Nah, he got in 3 hits, though one was when Anakin was distracted by Padme.
I only count clean hits as hits.

The part where he kicked Anakin's leg doesn't count to me.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I only count clean hits as hits.

The part where he kicked Anakin's leg doesn't count to me.

https://youtu.be/jC6F-Yf0dzo?t=67

1:07 the hit when he was distracted by Padme.

1:27 a double kick to his face.

1:33 spin kick to his face.

@Ant - Another quote for Sidious thinking Maul's skills are unparalleled:

Alone in his secret chambers, Darth Sidious meditated on this latest set of circumstances.

In many ways Darth Maul was an exemplary acolyte. His loyalty was unquestionable and unshakable; Sidious knew that, if he were to command it, Maul would sacrifice his life without a second's hesitation. And his skills as a warrior were nonpareil.

-- Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter

... Am I the only one that notices what's wrong with the above quote?