@Ares
I also care for good stories more then power levels. That's why I love Stover, Luceno and Ostrander. And hate Filoni.
Republic comic series along with short Jedi series (Count Dooku and Mace Windu especially) had better stories then Filoni can ever hope to write. He has a few good stories during TCW, but majority of them is naive and annoying.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Let's face it, the real recent abomination that's put him down in everyone's book is him losing to Blind Kanan. But that's only made me lose respect for Filoni tbh. Maul's own standing hasn't actually changed due to that. Witwer and even FPJ have made it clear Kanan/Ezra's partial training are no match for Maul's classical training.
It's pretty clear Kanan and Ezra were no match for Maul in S2, but it seems pretty clear that either of them will defeat him eventually.
Spilers form the Ahsoka novel.
Spoiler:
"Ahsoka confronts Maul, and manages to get him Angry/fired up enough to leap forward and strike her. She uses this method to lure him to an area where the clones had helped her set up a trap. Once maul entered within a certain area, Ray shields were engaged, locking maul where he was."
Originally posted by ares834So what ?
Spilers form the Ahsoka novel.Spoiler:
"Ahsoka confronts Maul, and manages to get him Angry/fired up enough to leap forward and strike her. She uses this method to lure him to an area where the clones had helped her set up a trap. Once maul entered within a certain area, Ray shields were engaged, locking maul where he was."
Don't see anything that embarrassing there tbh. If young Ahsoka just beat him in straight up combat or sliced up his legs again, then that would be embarassing. But here she just lures him into a trap with the help of clones.
Originally posted by Petrus
It's pretty clear Kanan and Ezra were no match for Maul in S2, but it seems pretty clear that either of them will defeat him eventually.
Going by Witwer's words plus the Kenobi revelation, that's unlikely to happen now tbh. Unless it's like, he fights Kenobi and Ezra joins in or cheap shots him from behind, or some other BS.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Don't see anything that embarrassing there tbh. If young Ahsoka just beat him in straight up combat or sliced up his legs again, then that would be embarassing. But here she just lures him into a trap with the help of clones.
It is pretty embarrassing, even in the context of a fight. It's the equivalent of waving a red flag to a bull, or more appropriately, a laser pointer to a cat. If Maul is susceptible to the types of antics that would ensnare animals, then he's left open to a range of borderline cases that could undermine his skill in a fight. You know that people are starting to add a suffix after Maul's name with a meme now? It goes a little something like this
- "Maul trips over and impales himself on his lightsaber"
It might sound ridiculous, but is it really? Especially when there are several instances where he's suffered loss of composure and loss of limb due to general incompetence.
Given Maul's gotten the better of Kenobi in the past by enraging him, I really don't see the issue. Unless Kenobi's also a bafoon bull whose susceptible to anyone raising a red flag.
And geez how easy was Anakin to enrage and make a clumsy move? High Ground anyone?
But like I said, at least in this scenario Maul wasn't beaten in direct 1 v 1 combat. Guarantee it was Filoni's idea anyway. Kissing up to his daughter Ahsoka as usual.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Given Maul's gotten the better of Kenobi in the past by enraging him, I really don't see the issue. Unless Kenobi's also a bafoon bull whose susceptible to anyone raising a red flag.
Yeah, that's called Dun Moch and it's power extends past the use of emotive language to spike a reatcion in it's victim. I doubt Ashoka would be versed in such a technique classically used by the Sith, so I'm not retracting any points from Obi Wan for a case that's hardly comparable, on the other hand, this sort of thing completely undermines the rigorous training Maul underwent at the hands of Sidious to build discipline.
And geez how easy was Anakin to enrage and make a clumsy move? High Ground anyone?
Anakin is certainly no role model aspiring the virtues of wisdom and common sense. On the contrary, this is a guy who was tricked into joining the dark side-out of desperation, I don't see anyone handing him a nobel prize. Everyone knows Anakin is a cocky piece of shit, but at least he didn't have the high ground and still get cut in half.
But like I said, at least in this scenario Maul wasn't beaten in direct 1 v 1 combat. Guarantee it was Filoni's idea anyway. Kissing up to his daughter Ahsoka as usual.
It is very much another L in Maul's court. It is true, Maul didn't get shat on in a physical confrontation, but really, has the bar of expectation been set so low, that a sigh of relief is let out eveytime doesn't get the crap kicked out of him by a teenager? Oh how times have changed.
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Yeah, that's called Dun Moch and it's power extends past the use of emotive language to spike a reatcion in it's victim. I doubt Ashoka would be versed in such a technique classically used by the Sith, so I'm not retracting any points from Obi Wan for a case that's hardly comparable, on the other hand, this sort of
Calling it Dun Moch (a word not so far used in Canon I believe) doesn't change the substance of what happened. Maul got Kenobi off balance by enraging him. Now if that can happen to such a usually calm, noble and experienced Jedi such as Kenobi, then it's really not surprising in the least that Maul, a psychotic dark sider whose lost everything, could also be susceptible to someone attempting to do the same to him.
People are just jumping on this as we're in a period of "let's laugh at Maul" thanks to Filoni.
Originally posted by ZiggystardustAnakin is certainly no role model aspiring the virtues of wisdom and common sense. On the contrary, this is a guy who was tricked into joining the dark side-out of desperation, I don't see anyone handing him a nobel prize. Everyone knows Anakin is a cocky piece of shit, but at least he didn't have the high ground and still get cut in half.
Anakin being an easily enraged, cocky Jedi is probably the closest Jedi example though. And it's not just Desperate Dark Side Anakin. One shot by Dooku in AOTC anyone?
The fact that Anakin does have that weakness, but has also shown he's very intelligent in battle, and has won many a war via his tactical genius, shows that just because Maul can get cocky and clumsy at times does not mean he's without intellect, or that he'll lose to anyone.
And come on, the getting cut in half by Obi-Wan again? Talk about going back to Day1 lowballing arguments. The fact that Maul had the high ground just proves it was a completely surprise attack, as Obi-Wan couldn't even defeat Maul on neutral ground.
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
It is very much another L in Maul's court. It is true, Maul didn't get shat on in a physical confrontation, but really, has the bar of expectation been set so low, that a sigh of relief is let out eveytime doesn't get the crap kicked out of him by a teenager? Oh how times have changed.
Given its an Ahsoka novel where she confronts Maul, and that Filoni's clearly had a lot of say in it, yeah I think we should be relieved he was just mentally bested, and not physically overpowered.
Remember mid S5 Ahsoka stalemating Grievous and besting him by escaping him with the padawans?
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Calling it Dun Moch (a word not so far used in Canon I believe) doesn't change the substance of what happened. Maul got Kenobi off balance by enraging him. Now if that can happen to such a usually calm, noble and experienced Jedi such as Kenobi, then it's really not surprising in the least that Maul, a psychotic dark sider whose lost everything, could also be susceptible to someone attempting to do the same to him.
Dun Moch is more than just a taunt that cuts too close to the bone, Thor. It is a Sith power that influences the victims state of mind in the midst battle with the dark side, a few eons above the calibre of random trashtalking, which is what I presume ensnared Maul. Nevertheless, a regular viewer can look at the scene with Kenobi, and comparative to everything else he has done, note that it's out of character for him to lash out at anyone... but we can also empathise with him. We all saw Obi Wan watch helplessly as his father figure was stabbed in the abdomen by this horned alien devil-creature, and we're reminded of that scene again when Maul decides to reiterate. For Kenobi, we can look at his behaviour and cast it of as an isolated event, For maul getting caged like a pig is simply another black-mark in the book of slapstick humour.
People are just jumping on this as we're in a period of "let's laugh at Maul" thanks to Filoni.
Well actually, I pariahed the incompetencies of Maul long before it became a canonical trend and widely accepted by the marvellous folks on KMC, meaning the responsibility rests proudly on my shoulders. And by the way, where do you think Filoni got the idea from..? I'll tell you were - he's been viewing my posts for inspiration.
Anakin being an easily enraged, cocky Jedi is probably the closest Jedi example though. And it's not just Desperate Dark Side Anakin. One shot by Dooku in AOTC anyone? The fact that Anakin does have that weakness, but has also shown he's very intelligent in battle, and has won many a war via his tactical genius, shows that just because Maul can get cocky and clumsy at times does not mean he's without intellect, or that he'll lose to anyone.
Anakin is an idiot and has done some hilariously stupid/cocky things, yes. Anything knew?
And come on, the getting cut in half by Obi-Wan again? Talk about going back to Day1 lowballing arguments. The fact that Maul had the high ground just proves it was a completely surprise attack,
The fact that Darth Maul was glaring over his enemy, showering him in sparks, Obi Wan both unarmed and in the most disadvantaged position possible, speaks volumes to how incompetent Maul would have been to go from assured victory, to painful bisection. Surprise attacks aren't an excuse, Maul should have slashed him as soon as Kenobi's body surfaced above ground-level. Anakin might of made a bad decision, but at the very least, it was against a person who could match him for a ridiculously protracted fight, with a justified ending.
as Obi-Wan couldn't even defeat Maul on neutral ground.
Stop with this shit.
Given its an Ahsoka novel where she confronts Maul, and that Filoni's clearly had a lot of say in it, yeah I think we should be relieved he was just mentally bested, and not physically overpowered.
Well that just goes to show how much your own opinion of Maul has sunk down to the nether-regions. That he is now less of a badass and more of a featurette in a series of lulworthy villains. Yes, Maul is currently on top of the pile when when it comes to bad guys doing stupid shit, overtaking Grievous with missteps that are both worse in magnitude and far more numerous in count. What worse, is that Maul is no longer intimidation or really a threat to anyone. The only people "seriously endangered" by him are the Innocent Bystanders and Damsel in Distress that they occasionally capture, and they end up no worse for wear than if they'd spent the afternoon in a Time Share seminar.
Remember mid S5 Ahsoka stalemating Grievous and besting him by escaping him with the padawans?
Ashoka ran away from the fight, so Grevious' only failing is not having killed her. If it were Maul, that cliff edge would have seen a pair of cybernetic legs dangling from it.