Originally posted by Nephthys
oh no not attonhe so totally comparable to malgus
totally
with all of his month of training
I don't recall if he says she beat him in sabers anyway. Plus she got a surprise attack on him. Besides which, he isn't powerful enough to threaten her. Meetra, and by extension Malgus, is.
Apparently it took place over a year, as people claim, but I don't recall a source for that at the moment.
It's not as if Atton wasn't a master of Echani disciplines and formerly trained to be in one of Darth Revan's elite Sith assassin squads. Or that the Exile's party learned forms like Juyo and just progressed at insane rates thanks to their Force Bonds with her.
And it's not as if Atton beat Sion whilst drowned in the dark side and with Sion feeding off him to scale off him. Sion, who, 45 years ago, before having studied at either the Korriban or Trayus Academy, or discovering his immortality, made a hobby out of cutting down "experts in lightsaber and Force-related combat". Or that Atton and the Exile wiped out an entire army of Sith on Citadel Station.
Atton might not be very comparable to Malgus, but Traya utterly stomping him in a short duel would imply that she's about equal with Malgus in blade-to-blade combat. Not to mention her insane augmentation.
She didn't get a surprise attack on Atton - Atton got a surprise attack on her. And still got curbed.
We're also forgetting her B-teaming of Brianna, who definitely puts her up there with Malgus and higher.
It's not like any of that remotely compares with Malgus in the slightest, who defeated the Jedi Battlemaster 45 years before his prime. I'm not saying Atton is bad or anything. But he is complete fodder compared to this level of combatant.
But like I said, Atton didn't lose to her in a contest of skill or anything like that. This was also prior to Meetra absorbing the power of dozens of Sith, which would have fueled Atton through the bond.
Traya still lost to Meetra even though she was more powerful and was on a hugely potent nexus because Meetra just tanked her force abilities and beat her in sabers. To suggest Malgus can't do the same even sans nexus is laughable.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It's not like any of that remotely compares with Malgus in the slightest, who defeated the Jedi Battlemaster 45 years before his prime. I'm not saying Atton is bad or anything. But he is complete fodder compared to this level of combatant.But like I said, Atton didn't lose to her in a contest of skill or anything like that. This was also prior to Meetra absorbing the power of dozens of Sith, which would have fueled Atton through the bond.
Traya still lost to Meetra even though she was more powerful and was on a hugely potent nexus because Meetra just tanked her force abilities and beat her in sabers. To suggest Malgus can't do the same even sans nexus is laughable.
1. He beat Kao by being enraged, lol, and with the possibility of Kao being tired. Beforehand he couldn't beat Kao even with Vindican on his side.
2. Yes, he did lose to her through skill and augmentation. Meetra absorbing the power of dozens doesn't matter since we have nothing for Atton after that. We only have him beating Sion and beating an army of Sith alongside Meetra. And of course Atton doesn't really compare to Malgus, which is why Traya destroying him even when he tried to ambush her puts her up with Malgus.
As I said, though, Atton isn't the only way we can derive skill for Traya. She also B-teamed an Atris+ opponent.
3. I rank the Exile above Malgus, so yeah.
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. He beat Kao by being enraged, lol, and with the possibility of Kao being tired. Beforehand he couldn't beat Kao even with Vindican on his side.2. Yes, he did lose to her through skill and augmentation. Meetra absorbing the power of dozens doesn't matter since we have nothing for Atton after that. We only have him beating Sion and beating an army of Sith alongside Meetra. As I said, though, Atton isn't the only way we can derive skill for Traya. She also B-teamed an Atris+ opponent.
3. I rank the Exile above Malgus, so yeah.
1. He's a Sith, lol. He's always enraged. He was no more angry than before, he just went full ham without Vindican in the way. It was only his full abilities finally being brought to bare. I could say the same thing about Kao being unable to beat Vindican when it was 1 on 1.
2. You must be talking about the cut content. Traya was standing in the middle of the Trayas Core, lol. He wasn't even able to compete, skill never became a factor. And his "ambush" was him walking up to her and attacking. Who gives a flip about Atris, lol. She doesn't register on any of the TOR protags level. She'd be an Act I planet boss. Malgus beat people who were blitzing the best Sith Warriors in the galaxy, he'd crush Sion and Brianna and Atton and Atris. TBH he'd probably beat them at the same time considering the FE fight.
3. That's nice. It's untrue, but its swell you think so. In sabers? Because she doesn't really have anything to support that. And Traya would certainly find it harder to fight Malgus' power focused offense with one hand than she would Meetra's.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Traya still lost to Meetra even though she was more powerful and was on a hugely potent nexus because Meetra just tanked her force abilities and beat her in sabers. To suggest Malgus can't do the same even sans nexus is laughable.
Originally posted by Nephthys
3. That's nice. It's untrue, but its swell you think so. In sabers? Because she doesn't really have anything to support that. And Traya would certainly find it harder to fight Malgus' power focused offense with one hand than she would Meetra's.
Surely her beating a skilled swordsman such as Traya, who held a power advantage and was on an extremely potent dark side nexus.... is "something to support that"
You're pulling a Carthage, arbitrarily ranking the Exile where you think she should be, saying Traya can't be that great because of your ranking, and then justifying your ranking of the Exile based on your ranking of Traya... It's all very circular.
Originally posted by Selenial
Surely her beating a skilled swordsman such as Traya, who held a power advantage and was on an extremely potent dark side nexus.... is "something to support that"You're pulling a Carthage, arbitrarily ranking the Exile where you think she should be, saying Traya can't be that great because of your ranking, and then justifying your ranking of the Exile based on your ranking of Traya... It's all very circular.
To be superior to Malgus? I don't agree it does support that. Like I've said, Traya might have those advantages but the Exile has an equally important advantage in possessing both hands. In a lightsaber duel thats pretty significant.
No, I'm basing my ranking on Atton and Brianna. SunRazer's attempting to establish Traya's level based on that of Atton and Brianna. The Exile's ranking is partially based on Traya's. Because I disagree with his ranking of Atton and Brianna, I'm confident in my ranking on Traya based on her defeat of them and subsequently my ranking of the Exile. I don't think that this is circular, isn't this how you're supposed to evaluate feats? You start at the foundation then work your way up.
Originally posted by Nephthys
1. He's a Sith, lol. He's always enraged. He was no more angry than before, he just went full ham without Vindican in the way. It was only his full abilities finally being brought to bare. I could say the same thing about Kao being unable to beat Vindican when it was 1 on 1.
Yeah, and there's more extreme states of Force Rage than others.
As for Kao not beign able to beat Vindican one-on-one, he obviously benefited from having Satele's saber. That's why his performance suddenly changed. Whereas Malgus needs an explanation for why his performance suddenly changed against Kao.
2. You must be talking about the cut content. Traya was standing in the middle of the Trayas Core, lol. He wasn't even able to compete, skill never became a factor. And his "ambush" was him walking up to her and attacking.
None of the renditions of the "party attacks Kreia" videos are complete. Atton was supposed to disappear and ambush Kreia from behind. She then beats him in a "short, quick, brutal duel". It's straight from the game files.
And yes, it was on the Trayus Core, but Traya stomps them regardless of alignment, so it's obviously not a nexus thing.
Who gives a flip about Atris, lol. She doesn't register on any of the TOR protags level. She'd be an Act I planet boss. Malgus beat people who were blitzing the best Sith Warriors in the galaxy, he'd crush Sion and Brianna and Atton and Atris. TBH he'd probably beat them at the same time considering the FE fight.
She's better than the Act I bosses, lol. Most of them don't have anything going for them in terms of skill. The only one you could argue for would be Angral.
Blitzing people stronger than Atris >>> blitzing the Sith warriors.
3. That's nice. It's untrue, but its swell you think so. In sabers? Because she doesn't really have anything to support that.
She does. Beating Traya on a colossal geyser of dark side energies, which is well in excess of beating Zallow, since Traya's better than Zallow.
And Traya would certainly find it harder to fight Malgus' power focused offense with one hand than she would Meetra's.
Sure, but she's sporting augmentation that allows her to shrug off hits from enraged Wookiees. She isn't bending quickly to Malgus' strength or anything of the sort. In fact, I think she'd contend quite fine.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, and there's more extreme states of Force Rage than others.As for Kao not beign able to beat Vindican one-on-one, he obviously benefited from having Satele's saber. That's why his performance suddenly changed. Whereas Malgus needs an explanation for why his performance suddenly changed against Kao.
Which Malgus was not benefiting from. His facial expressions were no angrier than before.
The second saber helped him fight 2 opponents at once. But if Kao was better at fighting with 2 sabers, surely that would have been his standard fighting style instead of a single saber. Plus, uh, lol Malgus got Vindicans saber remember? I guess if 2 sabers = boost he got one too.
Originally posted by SunRazer
None of the renditions of the "party attacks Kreia" videos are complete. Atton was supposed to disappear and ambush Kreia from behind. She then beats him in a "short, quick, brutal duel". It's straight from the game files.And yes, it was on the Trayus Core, but Traya stomps them regardless of alignment, so it's obviously not a nexus thing.
Do you have the game files for that? Besides which, if it's not complete or rendered, we can't say that it was a lightsaber fight.
They're canonically lightsided.
Originally posted by SunRazer
She's better than the Act I bosses, lol. Most of them don't have anything going for them in terms of skill. The only one you could argue for would be Angral.Blitzing people stronger than Atris >>> blitzing the Sith warriors.
You misunderstand, I said she wasn't better than the planetary bosses. So like Praven, Yonloch, Sadic....
Anyway, how is Brianna stronger than Atris? She got her ass kicked by Atris. Atris, btw, is a historian. So I wouldn't be too sure of her combat abilities in comparison to True Sith Warriors.
Originally posted by SunRazer
She does. Beating Traya on a colossal geyser of dark side energies, which is well in excess of beating Zallow, since Traya's better than Zallow.
No, she isn't. I terms of skill you havn't convinced me of that remotely, nor in terms of augmentation. Regardless, Malgus massively grows in power after the Zallow fight.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Sure, but she's sporting augmentation that allows her to shrug off hits from enraged Wookiees. She isn't bending quickly to Malgus' strength or anything of the sort. In fact, I think she'd contend quite fine.
Based on an image where Hanharr's foot doesn't even remotely connect with her, I'm finding myself doubtful. Whether or not she can protect her body from a strike like that, she obviously can't do the same against a lightsaber blade and she can't stand up to Malgus' double-handed strikes. The strength in her arm is the factor here, not her durability.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Which Malgus was not benefiting from. His facial expressions were no angrier than before.
The part where he was screaming as he ploughed through the barrel makes him seem pretty angry to me.
The second saber helped him fight 2 opponents at once. But if Kao was better at fighting with 2 sabers, surely that would have been his standard fighting style instead of a single saber. Plus, uh, lol Malgus got Vindicans saber remember? I guess if 2 sabers = boost he got one too.
Kao being a Battlemaster makes it more believable that he could wield a second blade effectively, but in either case, if we take the second blade for Malgus as an explanation, then it's just like Shaak Ti and the Magnaguards.
Do you have the game files for that? Besides which, if it's not complete or rendered, we can't say that it was a lightsaber fight.
Yes, I do have the game files, and nowhere does it mention her using the Force to dismiss him, as the only YouTube rendition of it I have found does. It's strictly a lightsaber duel.
They're canonically lightsided.
We're not discussing what's canon, we're discussing what the characters are capable of. Traya doesn't become exponentially more powerful because you make a few storyline changes, lol.
You misunderstand, I said she wasn't better than the planetary bosses. So like Praven, Yonloch, Sadic....
That's even worse.
Anyway, how is Brianna stronger than Atris? She got her ass kicked by Atris.
She got her ass kicked in the Force. They stalemated in sabers before that. And as you mentioned before, the Exile feeds off people she kills, and the companions benefit from that through their Force Bond from her. The Exile feeds off an army of Sith on Citadel Station and hordes of Dark Jedi/Sith troopers on the Ravager between the Atris fight and the Traya fight. Brianna obviously grows stronger in accordance with that.
Atris, btw, is a historian. So I wouldn't be too sure of her combat abilities in comparison to True Sith Warriors.
And Palpatine was a politican, but he'd stomp Malgus harder than you stomp a cockroach coming out of your couch.
You forget that Atris was better than Kavar, who was revered as one of the greatest warriors of the time - perhaps the greatest, for the Mandalorians (until Revan came along, that is). And this is an era where an extraordinarily high number of Jedi are experts in lightsaber and Force-related combat. Atris goes on to learn teachings of combat and the Force from dozens of Sith holocrons after this.
Kavar would be someone you compare to Praven+, not Atris. Atris is better, and she goes on to study dozens of Sith holocrons for combat teachings. She's more in league with Angral than Praven.
No, she isn't.
Yes, she is. Being able to blitz Atris+ opponents >> being able to blitz unnamed Sith Warriors, who, whilst the best in the Empire, are still unnamed fodder.
I terms of skill you havn't convinced me of that remotely, nor in terms of augmentation.
If Traya's better than Zallow, then the Exile beating her puts her above Malgus accordingly 😬
Regardless, Malgus massively grows in power after the Zallow fight.
That might counteract the colossal geyser of dark side energies that was influencing Surik vs Traya both ways, but nothing more.
Based on an image where Hanharr's foot doesn't even remotely connect with her, I'm finding myself doubtful.
The Handmaiden's blows come nowhere near Atton when he defends himself in the cargo hold, but we're supposed to take that as him blocking her strikes. It's just KotOR II's limited game engine. The same reason that it's not nearly twenty Sith, but only seven. And you excuse that, so it'd be hypocritical of you to not excuse this as well.
Whether or not she can protect her body from a strike like that, she obviously can't do the same against a lightsaber blade and she can't stand up to Malgus' double-handed strikes. The strength in her arm is the factor here, not her durability.
Durability in that sense represents physical fortitude. It's synonymous with strength. Traya's very much the Sidious of her time - but much weaker, of course - her frail appearance betrays her immense augmentation.
And obviously she can't protect herself if she gets hit by a lightsaber. Neither can Malgus or anyone else 😬
Originally posted by SunRazer
Anyways, this might shock some of you, but is Malgus really more skilled? Beating Zallow doesn't convince me that he's beyond Traya.
Yes, yes he is. Being one of the most skilled warriors in the Empire while he was still an apprentice and later becoming one of the Palpatine's greatest predecessors with battlefield feats that could never be replicated and fighting flawlessly against a team of the greatest Force users in the Galaxy puts him above f*cking Traya in skill. Jeezus christ.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Yes, yes he is. Being one of the most skilled warriors in the Empire while he was still an apprentice and later becoming one of the Palpatine's greatest predecessors with battlefield feats that could never be replicated and fighting flawlessly against a team of the greatest Force users in the Galaxy puts him above f*cking Traya in skill. Jeezus christ.
1. Explain.
2. It's more then that. As has been mentioned Sidious gave Vader Malgus's journals to be inspired by. You can't inspire someone like Vader with your feats if they are already capable of such themselves.
3. The HoT said that he had fought perfectly or flawlessly. The intent is clear. Also it's a scripted event that occurs every time and makes sense in context. Not only does it take focus to choke multiple people at once but Malgus would also have the energy shields of the non force users to contend with.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
1. Zallow blitzed some of the "finest of the Empire"
2. IIRC, Sidious learned something from Sorzus' journals. Does that mean Sorzus Syn>Post-RotS Palpatine?
Also, depending on the time in which he gave him the journals, Vader was a Sub-Sha Koon scrub.
3. I'll make a therad to that.
1. Quote?
2. Didn't say it made them greater. I just said it makes them impressively powerful and some of the greatest of all time.
3. Alright.
Originally posted by Ursumeles
2. Umm...excuse me? Tbfh, Malgus isn't one of the greatest predecessors. He is probably below most, if not all Banite Sith. It is an fine accolade, but nothing more.
lol, Ursumeles. Sidious is liying? Also, there's no proof the early banite line is above the TOR powerhouses. Curiously, Bane himself seems to suggest otherwise.