Luke Cage vs Colossus

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Based on the fact that a punch to the nuts nearly took him out of the fight it's clear he has some weaknesses - whether they are exactly the same as Cage's would be difficult to say. If his brain is not made of metal then I would say yes, it is possible for him to get knocked out and suffer from concussion, but how much force you would need to apply and where would only be speculation. The high impact close range shotgun blast upwards to Cage's brain was very deliberately aimed by Jessica to target his weakness, as was the punch to Colossus's groin.

Colossus was punched in the groin by someone with superstrength who was already capable of hurting him with regular hits. DP punched him in the nuts IIRC and DP just broke his hand.

So it's not like Colossus has a weakness there.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Colossus was punched in the groin by someone with superstrength who was already capable of hurting him with regular hits. DP punched him in the nuts IIRC and DP just broke his hand.

So it's not like Colossus has a weakness there.

Except that Cage has superstrength at the very least comparable to Angel Dust and Colossus, so if a punch from Angel Dust is going to hurt I'm willing to bet that a punch from Cage will hurt at least as much.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Except that Cage has superstrength at the very least comparable to Angel Dust and Colossus, so if a punch from Angel Dust is going to hurt I'm willing to bet that a punch from Cage will hurt at least as much.

And Colossus recovered quite quickly from that hit. It's not quite the same as Cage getting KO'd by a shotgun.

I feel like the shotgun is kind of PIS at this point. Even if the force of the blast was aimed pretty much directly at his brain stem (the tip of the barrel was pressed just behind the chin bone, so just skin, and a little bit of muscle and soft tissue between that and his brain), it shouldn't have caused the level of damage it did. As we see when

Spoiler:
Claire tries to cut inside him, and then even Luke himself tries,

Spoiler:
the rocket launcher, followed by the building collapsing on him

Edit: Still, I would say Negasonic's explosion, which then sent him flying into metal scaffolding, IIRC, is comparable to the rocket launcher thing. And Colossus wasn't KO'd, whereas Luke was.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And Colossus recovered quite quickly from that hit. It's not quite the same as Cage getting KO'd by a shotgun.

The fact that he recovered isn't as important as the fact that he showed he was vulnerable and that Cage could use those weaknesses to take him down, just like Angel Dust did. This is H2H, I assume, since neither combatant uses a gun.

I just had a look at Colossus's fight again and while Cage's weaknesses have been mentioned here there are a few other factors to consider as well, I think, when judging this fight:

A punch from a professional boxer moves at about 30mph. A shotgun blast moves at about 800mph. The impact of the shotgun blast is also concentrated over a much smaller area than that of a fist. Not a physics major, but I think that means in order for Colossus to do the same damage to Luke he would have to hit nearly 30 times faster and make sure that he strikes only with one or two knuckles. Colossus clearly demonstrates that he is not a trained martial artist and since he doesn't possess superspeed I think he will find that quite difficult.

In the fight against Angel Dust Colossus is stunned by her first punch and takes a few seconds to recover and pick himself up, cries out in pain when she twists his arm and finally seems completely helpless while being choked out by her from behind until Negasonic saves him.

I think it's a pretty good match-up but my money is still going to be on Cage winning by a small margin, based on the fact that he actually has some fighting skills and seems to be just as tough and just as strong as Colossus, or at least so close that the difference will not matter.

Force = mass x acceleration. the mass of Colossus' fist >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shotgun pellets. therefore it doesn't have to be moving at anywhere near the same speed in order to hit with the same or far greater levels of force.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Force = mass x acceleration. the mass of Colossus' fist >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shotgun pellets. therefore it doesn't have to be moving at anywhere near the same speed in order to hit with the same or far greater levels of force.

That makes sense - like I said, physics isn't my thing. But wouldn't a big, slow-moving fist also spread out the impact a lot more than the point-blank blast from the barrel of a shotgun, thereby transforming the energy into momentum? When Colossus takes a punch to the face from Angel Dust, for instance, we see him flying through the air quite a distance, which means a lot of the force of the blow has been changed into energy used for momentum.

It's not just the level of force (they're both strong and invulnerable to a degree) but also how the force is applied.

Are you trying to say that Colossus withstood less force when he was sent flying than Luke Cage did being hit with a shotgun blast?

No. I am not saying that the force was less, but that the one type of impact hurt less and did less damage than the other.

We know that both Cage and Colossus can take a lot of force and absorb a lot of damage. The force has to be channelled and directed correctly to target one of their weak spots for it to do damage. Angel Dust slammed Colossus to the ground with a lot of force yet he was able to roll out of the way of her next attack, but when she targeted his elbow and his shoulder by wrenching his arm she made him cry out in pain. She didn't use more force, she just applied it differently.

Similarly, Cage took the impact of an SUV hitting him with enough force to fold double around him without doing much more than brace himself to make sure it didn't hit the people he was protecting. He didn't even move and showed no sign of injury, yet that was a lot of mass moving at a decent speed, which means a lot of force.

If Colossus had shown any kind of martial arts training he could really hurt Cage by applying carefully aimed strikes using his strength and size. But since they are both big, strong and tough guys my money is on the one with the most evidence of training and fighting skill, namely Cage.

That only works if they are comparable in strength and durability, I mean the Hulk is also big, tough and strong. would you give Luke the edge in a hth fight?

Are you saying Colossus and Cage are not comparable in strength and durability? I haven't really seen evidence that they are far apart, myself. Anything specific that makes you think Cage might not be a match for Colossus, or vice versa?

Mainly his fight with AD, at least as far as durability goes.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Mainly his fight with AD, at least as far as durability goes.

I thought his durability showed quite a few weak spots, myself. For instance, Colossus is stunned by her first punch and takes a few seconds to recover and pick himself up, cries out in pain when she twists his arm and finally seems completely helpless while being choked out from behind, until Negasonic saves him. That seems to indicate that they are not that far apart. Very tough, yes, both of them, but not completely invulnerable.

You're assuming AD and Luke have comparable strength.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You're assuming AD and Luke have comparable strength.

Yes, based on their various feats I haven't really seen that big a difference between the two.

So what has Luke done that is comparable to sending Colossus flying as far as she did?

Oh wow, I'll have to scan through the series to look up specific feats, but from what I can remember he punched through solid walls when breaking out of prison and out of the cellar in the club without much effort, made it look easy when he was slinging pieces of concrete around after the building collapsed, casually crushed a revolver into a ball with his left hand while sitting in church and sent both the cop and Diamondback flying through the air when they attacked him, not to mention the reinforced steel gates he ripped out of the wall and the lock of the vault he popped open when he went after Cottonmouth's money.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Oh wow, I'll have to scan through the series to look up specific feats, but from what I can remember he punched through solid walls when breaking out of prison and out of the cellar in the club without much effort, made it look easy when he was slinging pieces of concrete around after the building collapsed, casually crushed a revolver into a ball with his left hand while sitting in church and sent both the cop and Diamondback flying through the air when they attacked him, not to mention the reinforced steel gates he ripped out of the wall and the lock of the vault he popped open when he went after Cottonmouth's money.

He actually punched straight through concrete and steel at one point, which even caused Claire to remark on it. And he pretty much Hancock'd that SUV. He also tossed that big couch like a softball in the one episode, and twisted up gun barrels on multiple occasions. Plus, he also knocked over that tall gallery support pillar during his one encounter with Diamondback. He has more feats that I can't recall 100% accurately right now.

The SUV feat was his best. Other than that, I didn't think anything else was all that impressive. He moved some concrete, threw a couch, and ripped a stove, freezer or two out of the wall. If he was chucking cars or something then I would be impressed.