Knightfall Vader vs. Darth Plagueis

It's not enough to just meet someone to know how powerful they are though. Jaina had been fighting with Luke her entire life and shared a close Force connection, and she admitted in LotF that she had no idea how powerful he really was.

It's TOR. Scourge got HoT being the strongest Jedi by just meeting him as well, IIRC.

I mean, Tol Braga also thought that he could defeat Vitiate. I don't see why we have to take people's word seriously on those matters.

Well, Scourge has learned from people thinking that they could defeat Vitiate 🙂

True. In any event, the quote still applies to the hundred plus Jedi that Scourge killed because the Emperor deemed them too powerful.

Plagueis wins in a great fight.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, Scourge has learned from people thinking that they could defeat Vitiate 🙂

True. In any event, the quote still applies to the hundred plus Jedi that Scourge killed because the Emperor deemed them too powerful.

That's fair. I guess it's a good case for Meetra being a legitimately powerful Jedi by the Revan novel, although I don't think it conclusively puts her above Satele for the reasons aforementioned.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
That's fair. I guess it's a good case for Meetra being a legitimately powerful Jedi by the Revan novel, although I don't think it conclusively puts her above Satele for the reasons aforementioned.

Perhaps.

I wouldn't mind subscribing to that. It's sometimes frustrating when Satele has almost nothing on her side in TOR. Debating for her can be hard and this might've made it even worse.

I think Satele should be powerful given her non-powerscaled feats, like crushing hex droids with a gesture and stuff. Maybe TCW Obi Wan level with the Force?

TOR characters tend to be super hyped just right after they come out. People though Satele and Malgus together could challenge Vitiate, then they though Jadus was above Vader, then they thought Valkorion could defeat Luke and Palpatine together (lol), and now they've settled into their places.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I think Satele should be powerful given her non-powerscaled feats, like crushing hex droids with a gesture and stuff. Maybe TCW Obi Wan level with the Force?

TOR characters tend to be super hyped just right after they come out. People though Satele and Malgus together could challenge Vitiate, then they though Jadus was above Vader, then they thought Valkorion could defeat Luke and Palpatine together (lol), and now they've settled into their places.

Those hex droids were resisting an enraged Eldon Ax's Force Crush and a host of other things. I think they were unaffected by missiles, too. Satele Crushing them casually and freezing them in mid-air with mere looks is pretty good.

Yeah, I remember back in 2011 when Satele was considered closer to Vitiate than to Marr.

I think people find it demeaning to say that all of these uber-hyped characters are sub-Kenobi level, but I don't see why Kenobi has to be considered weak. He's obviously incredibly powerful.

True. I've been getting back on the Kenobi hype train recently.

Originally posted by SunRazer
TPM Sidious doesn't draw his lightsaber again for more than a decade, so it's safe to say that he really didn't improve. In which case, using his RotS feats is still understandable. Does that not contradict the idea of Plagueis being a better duelist to you?

I'm not seeing how Meetra quote is contradicted by Satele, then.

Sidious inferably grew in power though and thus has improved reflexes, precondition and augmentation.

The last time Scourge saw Meetra was at her death. Not during a time gap in which Meetra improved.

1. Then he also inferrably lost skill from not practicing for over a decade?

2. So what if Meetra didn't improve?

Yes. Though can you provide the quote that says he didn't practice at all?

There's no reason to infer the quotes accuracy changes unlike with Sidious.

There's no quote. There's just the fact that he was now Chancellor and didn't exactly have to leave to deal with any sort of threats like Maul.

Actually, I think there was a quote(s) that he hadn't drawn his lightsaber for a long time in RotS, but that got retconned with his TCW fight against the brothers. Though it still means that he hadn't drawn his lightsabers from the Hypori duel well before TPM to TCW.

I'm sure he had some free time.

I don't see why he would choose to practice. He would only use them if he had to defeat someone special, which isn't documented since nothing happens between TPM and AotC that would concern him.

IIRC, he didn't even carry a lightsaber anymore as of 52BBY, which was why he had to borrow Plagueis' lightsaber when decided to get revenge on Pax Teem.

And before you say it, yes, I know he had a second blade tucked up his sleeve. He probably constructed it after that incident I mentioned.

Remind me again when's 52BBY in the timeline?

Twenty years before TPM.