Well. You seem to have this covered Beni and I know I personally hate it when people attempt to come in and double team me.
I'll leave you two to it. *Pouts*
I would be excited at the prospect of taking over for Beni if he fails but honestly that's pretty unlikely given he's likely a superior debater and is taking the stance that the actual events support.
🙁
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
1. Um, what?
Indeed.
2. You're not getting a better formatted version if you're referring to me actually quoting your argument. I don't do quotes for anyone.
It's a wise skill to learn in the realm of outdated forum engines, one must ask why it's such a tenuous concept when it's so easy to put in practice. And for the purpose of deciphering which rebuttals are meant for which portions of the argument, it is pretty useful. If that's to hard, then this numbered list of points will do me fine.
3. Saying "concession accepted" is hurling abusive daggers? Jesus. How do your survive on this forum?
Getting salty salty over the failings of fictional characters who serve as disgraces to the continuity, and threatening those who disparage them with physical violence, or at least musing their battered bodies at the end of a knuckle duster, will make me disengage. We are not animals, if you want to be romantic, find passion one topics that bare more importance than SW.
1. Shaak Ti as of RotS is noted to be one of the more skilled and powerful masters of the Order. She's certainly comparable to Ventress if not her equal.
One of the more skilled in an order thousands is far to vague and ambiguous to be defined. It means nothing. It's a token hype that's handed out to everybody and their grandmothers. When a label is distributed among an ever-growing number of lightsaber-swingers, that label looses it's value. It becomes less special when the amount of people who wear it an honour badge is extended to anyone with a name and a lightsaber. Such accolades aren't reliable when rightfully placing someone in a hierarchy. So what are we left with? Well we do know of course, that she's going to be a bit less skilled/powerful than the trio accompanying Windu's arrest warrant, the best of whom was soundly defeated by Ventress in combat. We also know she takes the silver medal when fighting Grievous on Hypori, Kiadi Mundi being the decisive MVP of their squadron. Based off all this, she's not on the elite level with Mace, Yoda and Anakin; as Nick Gillard would call it, the "tier 9's". She's certainly not on par with Obi Wan or Grievous resting firmly in within the 8's and she's not even shoulder to shoulder with people directly below that - Fisto or Kolar. Ventress on the other hand, is a genuine threat to everyone listed, with even Mace Windu needing all his skills to best her. There's no comparison.
2. Shaak Ti's notable feat is her accolades of skill and ability to fend of dozens of magnaguards combined with a power that is firmly above both Rahm and Paratus.
Her accolades, as we've just discussed, amount to nothing and the ability to fend a dozen of magnagaurds would be made more impressive if she wasn't struggling with one of them beforehand. Really if this was a valid comparison with all the contextual fixings, you could take Shaak's performance in OCW and extend beyond it's natural limits to assert she's better than the fighting force of Anakin and Obi Wan. But she's not, even against Magnagaurd's, the difference between Shaak Ti with a staff is obvious. Labyrinth of Evil makes it clear that unexpected attack patterns were beyond the programmed limits of Magnagaurds, which explains the the polarised difference in performances when she utilised their weapons, to when she was using her own. As for Rham and Paratus, they're literally nothing. Not until you can clarify what being more powerful than either means.
3. There's nothing suggesting the Imperial guards were capable of anything but contending for a short period in the comic and it's confirmed that that's as long as they can go up against Galen before being taken out. Regardless the Imperial Guard's ability is not based on their station but their performance and demonstrated feats.
In the comic, Galen was getting spanked by one of these black faces, the running commentary explaining how he needed to use his surroundinga to get the upper Hand. In both versions of the game, they are made invulnerable to any direct attacks with telekinesis, so it seems to be a pretty ingrained development across all mediums screaming out one clear message, these little douchers are beyond Galen's ability to affect with the Force. And yes, Syndicate, they're fodder. Fodder who can challenge Galen more than once.
4. Because mastery and perfection are two different levels of ability as I already noted when I posted the example of Mace and Obi Wan's conversation. You would also know that Kas'im had perfected lightsaber combat yet his ability as a lightsaber combatant was limited to his technical ability and ability as a Force user which was why he was on the losing end against Bane with a single blade despite being more skilled.
I will state it again, clearly you've taken this accolade beyond its natural limits to express how Galen is almost as masterful a Soresu practitioner as Kenobi, only shy from Dooku's From 2 proficiency, comparable to Anakin in the style of Djem So and approaching Mace Windu's defness with Vaapad. I'm sorry to tell you, but for Galen, this clearly isn't the case. It's clear that the word perfection is only being used to produce a relative conviction in the same way mastery is often used to describe lightsaber wielders, in which case, the accolade puts him directly below people like Adi Gaila. I'd also like to know why Galen's lightsaber technique is considered imperfect, because it would explain why the people who can challenge him, have done so with nearing levels of success. All we have here is an ambigious label that can be used to praise the likes of Coleman Trebor - and quite possibly people weaker than him also.
6. Which clearly refers to potential given there are multiple quotes stating he has become more powerful then he was as Anakin Skywalker and who has logically grew more experienced and skilled due to having nearly two decades of leading the Jedi Purge along with all of Anakin's knowledge and experience.
"When Obi-Wan Kenobi duels his former apprentice Darth Vader aboard the Death Star, both combatants know they are but shadows of their former selves." - Source: Lightsaber Article
Which is not the same as : both combatants know they are mere shadows of what they could have been. Trying to conflate this with potential is a pretty desperate measure given it's very clear designation to their combat skill in the past. And if you're arguing that it refer's to Anakin's potential, what's Obi Wans excuse? He didn't suffer grievous injury at the cost of Force connection. He just became old and diminished in skill and ability. Vader is not what he was nor what he could have been, which explains why Old codgers can fight him on an even footing, not too mention neophytes such as Luke, who should be no better than Anakin at the time of Attack of the Clones.
Originally posted by Balta Skywalker
Still; why does she lose?
In the game: we don't know.
In the comic: She thought she won and lowered her guard (ala TPM Maul) and got injured, from that point on she wasn't in a position to win so she an hero'd.
In the novel: Cheapshot, plain and simple. Galen got lucky.