Originally posted by AncientPower
The Temple was destroyed and rebuilt, rofl. The fact there were massive parts of the temple inaccessible due to the major damage that Sith bombers and Malgus' detonation charges caused, speaks volumes of how much would have been rebuilt. Furthermore, the Temple undergoes an entire series of changes throughout the NSW too.
Plenty of area remained intact from the Sacking of Coruscant. We know at least some of the halls that Revan walked were pretty much the same as the ones Mace walked, but that's not necessary anyway. The Jedi Temple on Coruscant is still the Jedi Temple. You're walking through the same halls; they've just been reconstructed.
They weren't walking the same halls, Revan's feats are still > Dooku's and you can stop with laughable claims like Jinn >> Surik too.
Name feats of Revan's from up to the start of the novel that eclipse Dooku's.
I can't remember where I claimed Jinn >> Surik, but assuming it's novel Surik, Jinn being a virtual equal of Maul in the domain of skill puts him well above nerfed Surik, yeah.
Laughable to you, maybe, but not to too many others.
You have no idea if they were the same, when Leneer fights Malgus in the Temple she makes it clear that the place is barely recognisable. Not to mention that the Jedi Temple in Revan has been changed by the time of Decieved. Yoda > Dooku > Mace > All previous Jedi who walked the Temple since the Ruusan Reformations seems fairly clear.
Fighting through the Lehon Temple to Bastila, defeating her, then fighting through the Star Forge's legions before defeating Bastila again and then defeating a double amped Darth Malak whilst exhausted and severely hindered by the Forge itself, seems more impressive to me than anything Dooku has ever done.
Given Malak's powers on the Star Forge eclipsed those of Darth Revan, who is killing Rakata and Rancors with his FLS, manipulating the energies of Malachor V to corrupt the Jedi and absorbing Malachor V's power instead of letting it consume him.
Well given numerous sources state that Surik is comparable to Reborn Revan in combative ability, I find it hard to believe Jinn is >> Reborn Revan in anything.
Originally posted by AncientPower
You have no idea if they were the same, when Leneer fights Malgus in the Temple she makes it clear that the place is barely recognisable. Not to mention that the Jedi Temple in Revan has been changed by the time of Decieved. Yoda > Dooku > Mace > All previous Jedi who walked the Temple since the Ruusan Reformations seems fairly clear.
Parts of it in SWTOR are the same as from the films.
Fighting through the Lehon Temple to Bastila, defeating her, then fighting through the Star Forge's legions before defeating Bastila again
That's primarily a stamina feat, which is hard to compare since Dooku's stamina varies depending on the source. But I hope you don't think any of this is outside of Dooku's capabilities of a warrior.
and then defeating a double amped Darth Malak whilst exhausted and severely hindered by the Forge itself, seems more impressive to me than anything Dooku has ever done.
Dooku's factually much more skilled than Malak and has much better feats across the board. He'd stomp Malak, so beating him under those circumstances isn't out of his reach at all.
Given Malak's powers on the Star Forge eclipsed those of Darth Revan
Where is that stated?
who is killing Rakata and Rancors with his FLS
Where does that happen?
manipulating the energies of Malachor V to corrupt the Jedi
That predominately comes down to his understanding of psychology and Force Bonds. Nowhere is it credited to his power.
I'm looking for more direct examples, like contextualized combative Force feats. These dubious off-panel ones are nearly impossible to compare. After all, I can bring up the fact that Dooku created a near-perfect Doppelganger of himself that fooled Anakin into thinking that it was the real Dooku. Or that he placed dark energy traps that couldn't be penetrated by Anakin's lightsaber (which was built for maximum power) and imprisoned Anakin along with several other Jedi. But that would be near-impossible to compare.
and absorbing Malachor V's power instead of letting it consume him.
That's more to do with willpower than anything else.
Well given numerous sources state that Surik is comparable to Reborn Revan in combative ability, I find it hard to believe Jinn is >> Reborn Revan in anything.
Novel Surik? I don't think so. And that depends on where you rank Reborn Revan in terms of skill.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Parts of it in SWTOR are the same as from the films.
Except it isn't, the exterior is visually similar, but the interior was destroyed and other parts collapsed entirely.
Originally posted by SunRazer
That's primarily a stamina feat, which is hard to compare since Dooku's stamina varies depending on the source. But I hope you don't think any of this is outside of Dooku's capabilities of a warrior.
One of the biggest cop outs ever used against army busters. 😬
It isn't mere stamina, it's an ability to fight entire hordes of elite Sith at once without them overpowering you. This isn't the game where the Sith just stand around, this was a continuous effort by Revan to break through the almost dndless army Malak had prepared for him.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Dooku's factually much more skilled than Malak and has much better feats across the board. He'd stomp Malak, so beating him under those circumstances isn't out of his reach at all.
Exactly what has he-whilst hindered and exhausted-done that stomps a double amped Darth Malak, who is primarily responsible for the dark side growing so strong that the Jedi-Revan and Bastila included-couldn't sense the destruction of Dantooine?
"We should have felt a disturbance in the Force when the attack came. The fact that we did not is a bad sign. I fear the dark side is growing stronger, casting shadows our vision cannot pierce."―Bastila Shan
Originally posted by SunRazer
Where is that stated?
"When Revan fell we had hoped the Sith threat was ended. But Malak quickly assumed Revan's role, and has embraced the dark side power as fully as his old master ever did. Now Malak leads the Sith armada against the Republic. Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side, fueling his powers until they surpass those of his old master."―Vandar Tokare
"You must go now, Revan. The Star Forge feeds the power of your old apprentice. If you do not stop him soon he will become too powerful for even you to stop."―Elder Council
Though arguably, the greatest reason for this is that Darth Revan refused to rely on the Star Forge whereas Malak embraced its power completely.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Where does that happen?
"You killed our patrols and war beasts with lightning from the sky."―Rakatan Warrior
Originally posted by SunRazer
That predominately comes down to his understanding of psychology and Force Bonds. Nowhere is it credited to his power.
😬
"Revan is able to draw upon the dark side energies of the planet below and use it during the battle."―Star Wars: Chronicles of the Old Republic
"Revan used the Trayus Academy to influence the battle above Malachor V, using its power to affect the tide of battle and corrupt others to the Sith. "―Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm looking for more direct examples, like contextualized combative Force feats. These dubious off-panel ones are nearly impossible to compare. After all, I can bring up the fact that Dooku created a near-perfect Doppelganger of himself that fooled Anakin into thinking that it was the real Dooku. Or that he placed dark energy traps that couldn't be penetrated by Anakin's lightsaber (which was built for maximum power) and imprisoned Anakin along with several other Jedi. But that would be near-impossible to compare.
Indeed?
How about being as powerful as Ulic Qel-Droma:
"But this young one, like the other Jedi brethren, is unaware of the tremendous dark side power wielded by Revan..."―Star Wars: Chronicles of the Old Republic
"Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma disappear for several years, gaining tremendous powers of the dark side."
- Tales of the Jedi Training Manual
Both of whom would be far more powerful than Nadd's spirit, who had given Ommin enough power to dominate millions, one-shot Jeth and Nomi and corrupt Onderon to an unusual degree as a side effect of his sorcery.
Originally posted by SunRazer
That's more to do with willpower than anything else.
Possibly.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Novel Surik? I don't think so. And that depends on where you rank Reborn Revan in terms of skill.
She's repeatedly stated to be comparable to him in combat, read your own respect thread.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Except it isn't, the exterior is visually similar, but the interior was destroyed and other parts collapsed entirely.
There are parts of the interior that are still standing and in fine condition.
Besides, I already said that even if it gets rebuilt, he's still walking the Jedi Temple.
One of the biggest cop outs ever used against army busters. 😬It isn't mere stamina, it's an ability to fight entire hordes of elite Sith at once without them overpowering you. This isn't the game where the Sith just stand around, this was a continuous effort by Revan to break through the almost dndless army Malak had prepared for him.
I didn't say it was merely stamina. I said "That's primarily a stamina feat", which it is. If you're facing lots of fodder, they're still fodder, it's just that they keep coming at you in waves until you tire and break down. Not tiring and breaking down is a feat of stamina, and that's the main thing. Beating the same people over and over again doesn't multiply the skill feat, lol. It's mostly a stamina feat. Revan only needs to be good enough to beat the first group. After that, it becomes a stamina feat.
Exactly what has he-whilst hindered and exhausted-done that stomps a double amped Darth Malak, who is primarily responsible for the dark side growing so strong that the Jedi-Revan and Bastila included-couldn't sense the destruction of Dantooine?
Firstly, nowhere is Revan stated to have stomped Malak on the SF. Drew claims that it was an incredibly close fight, and nothing else mentions the difficulty of the battle (other than the Insider #88 article dubiously claiming that Malak had a desperate final battle with Revan, which is probably just a convoluted reference to Malak vs Darth Revan). Hence, Dooku stomping Malak would be sufficient grounds to say that he could beat Malak under those circumstances.
Secondly, that quote about the dark side growing stronger is a pretty good showing for Malak, but could it be solely attributed to him? Surely Darth Revan played an integral part in that. Malak might've been primarily responsible for the final stage of imbalancing the Force, but he would've been building on the work of Darth Revan. But as I said before, I'm primarily looking for contextualized, in-combat Force showings, which this isn't.
Thirdly, in reference to Malak being "double-amped" — I'm assuming this refers to the SF amp and the Jedi amp? Malak claims to be drawing on their power, but the Databanks contextualizes this claim by stating that it was to replenish his life force. He was just amped by the SF and used the Jedi to replenish himself.
"When Revan fell we had hoped the Sith threat was ended. But Malak quickly assumed Revan's role, and has embraced the dark side power as fully as his old master ever did. Now Malak leads the Sith armada against the Republic. Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side, fueling his powers until they surpass those of his old master."―Vandar Tokare
That's will-future tense. It hasn't happened yet, and Vandar isn't in the position to know anyway.
"You must go now, Revan. The Star Forge feeds the power of your old apprentice. If you do not stop him soon he will become too powerful for even you to stop."
Indefinite future tense, and it's referring to Revan as of KotOR, not Darth Revan.
Though arguably, the greatest reason for this is that Darth Revan refused to rely on the Star Forge whereas Malak embraced its power completely.
Not sure if that denotes power. Perhaps Darth Revan foresaw that it would corrupt him eventually, whereas Malak remained oblivious to such a fact. SWTOR seems to have retconned Darth Revan into having a greater understanding of the SF than Malak, contrary to Malak's claims at the end of KotOR.
Besides, reverse arguments of this are entirely possible. Darth Revan used Malachor to corrupt Jedi, but Malak never did so even after becoming Dark Lord.
"You killed our patrols and war beasts with lightning from the sky."
Sounds like turbolasers, which was compared to lightning from KotOR II. And that was almost certainly the case.
😬"Revan is able to draw upon the dark side energies of the planet below and use it during the battle."
―Star Wars: Chronicles of the Old Republic
"Revan used the Trayus Academy to influence the battle above Malachor V, using its power to affect the tide of battle and corrupt others to the Sith. "
―Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
Again, learn to read. I said it's never been attributed to his power. Your quotes just prove that Revan could draw on a nexus and perhaps "spread its influence". KotOR II establishes that Darth Revan's method of corrupting Jedi came from "promising them power" which presumably refers to using Malachor V's nexus tempt them with power. Which is great, but completely irrelevant here.
Indeed?How about being as powerful as Ulic Qel-Droma:
"But this young one, like the other Jedi brethren, is unaware of the tremendous dark side power wielded by Revan..."
Both of whom would be far more powerful than Nadd's spirit, who had given Ommin enough power to dominate millions, one-shot Jeth and Nomi and corrupt Onderon to an unusual degree as a side effect of his sorcery.
I'm sorry, but what? Firstly, Chronicles is a very unreliable source, but that aside, the quote says Surik was unaware of the fact that Revan wielded tremendous dark side powers. That had nothing to do with Ulic Qel-Droma at all.
EDIT: You mean the fact that they're both stated as wielding tremendous powers makes him as equal to Qel-Droma?😂
She's repeatedly stated to be comparable to him in combat, read your own respect thread.
Mandalore's quote refers to K2 Exile. Drew's comments are just in my RT for counter-fluff to the so-called "Revan stomping Surik in a duel" nonsense from Avellone. Scourge's comments don't make them near-equals either, just set them as the best of the Jedi that he's faced in 300 years.
Point taken.
I still enjoy that "my greatest enemy under the tutelage of Exar Kun" quote.
For the record, I prefer the idea that Starkiller > Krayt Force-wise, but I'm not sure how well that'd go with the people who rank him next to Revan. And I ranked Gethzerion > Marka Ragnos because we've got a better idea of how powerful she was (ie enough to whip up some thunderstorms and frighten Luke when Vader couldn't).
Anyways, here's where everything turns into a giant clusterfvck.
11. Exar Kun / Galen Marek
12. Exar Kun / Galen Marek
13. Tassar
14. Adelade
15. Vaylin
16. Soa
17. Mace Windu
18. Darth Malgus
19. Tau
20. Arcann
And for the record, yes: I believe Mace surpassed Tyranus in the time that he left. How else would you explain his ability to defeat Sidious (and block his lightning indefinitely) when "our greatest student" dared not question his power?
Physically, the Count's age was rarely a handicap. Deft as he had become with the Force—unimaginably more subtle than the boy who had watched waterskeeters in the Jedi gardens all those years ago—he wore his eighty-three standard years better than most humans half his age. He was still in superb physical shape, senses keen, health undiminished by even the memory of a cold.Only in this situation, stooped before the image of his Master, did he feel his years. Even via hologram, the flickering figure of Darth Sidious, hideous in blue and shadows, seemed to strip his false youth away, leaving his bones brittle, his joints worn thin and knotted with tension.
—Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
Wisdom, more like stupidity. What exactly did dooku think was happen when anakin became ready? Heck even ventress figured it out before dooku did and when dooku had a chance to escape it per yoda offering a way back, he got his beard all crossed because anakin came back and his inflated ego couldn't handle that he wasn't the best.(Even though he should have learned that fro, the first to,e yoda whopped him in aotc)
Originally posted by UrsumelesThe end bosses of a couple Uprisings (basically Flashpoints) in SWTOR.
Who are Tassar and Adelade?
Commander Tassar's the Exarch that designed the Star Fortresses.
Adelade's a rogue Jedi Master who established a Force link with a creature trapped in the core of Makeb called Gethul.
It's heavily implied that the Outlander can't beat the final bosses of Uprisings all on their own.
Before you say anything, game mechanics totally represent what characters are capable of (whether they actually do it or not).
Unless you just want to dismiss Vaylin's Force Slam.