Originally posted by Geistalt
You made a list named Form V practitioners and I was suppose to know you mean all out? Who's the retard now?
You pretty much just made another most powerful list with a filter on. And even that you f-ucked up. Yoda, Sidious, and Mace as a master of Form V should be way ahead of some of these c-unts.
Spoiler:
Vader is still well ahead of any of the Galens and even Kyp in all out.
Also crop you f-ucking images.
I adjusted my list for you last page. Caedus is above Vader now.
For Mace being more powerful than Revan as of the last time Revan walked the Jedi Temple (start of the Revan novel):
Alongside Mace Windu, with whom he served on the Jedi Council, Yoda was the most respected and most powerful Master ever to have walked the corridors of the Jedi Temple.-- Star Wars Fact File 11
For Dooku being more powerful than Mace (retconning the previous quote):
"Hm." Yoda stirred again with his stick. "Then best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force?" He nodded. "Best of all, Dooku would be!" His eyes found the other Jedi, one by one: and one by one, they looked away. "Our greatest student!" Yoda's ears flexed, then drooped. "Our greatest failure."-- Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
For Jedi Dooku being eclipsed by no Jedi in terms of fighting skill bar Mace and Yoda (therefore making Mace > start of novel Revan):
Under Yoda's tutelage, Dooku became one of the greatest sword masters the Order had ever produced - eclipsed only by Mace Windu and Yoda himself.-- The Official Starships & Vehicles Collection #48
Yoda taught many pupils throughout his years, including Dooku, who became one of the finest sword masters the Order ever produced - eclipsed only by Mace Windu and Yoda himself.-- The Official Starships & Vehicles Collection #48
And we know Dooku improved in skill as a Sith Lord, so by then he's factually more skilled than Revan as of the start of the Revan novel also:
However, once Dooku left the Jedi Order to become an apprentice to the Sith Lord Darth Sidious, his skills became even more formidable.-- The Official Star Wars Fact File #68
The quotes I listed put them above above Revan as of the start of the novel, which is a year on from KotOR Revan, who Malak admits to be stronger than he ever was as a Dark Lord. So Dooku > Darth Revan, pretty clearly. 😬
I said it's fair to rank him over Revan Reborn, not that it's true. That's up to debate. Indeed, Revan does have a likely sizeable growth in power after reclaiming his mask, but Dooku had thirteen years of study as a Sith, and his cruiser feat compares pretty well with Revan's.
I know to whom its referring to, but logically Darth Revan's mastery over the Force should be far more complete than it was by the end of KOTOR. So maybe Malak was wrong. 🙁
Revan's knowledge of the dark side seems much greater than Dooku's tbh, despite that education. Proving a threat to Vitiate on a nexus (and trashing Nyriss) also strike me as more impressive than being handled easily by Yoda.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I know to whom its referring to, but logically Darth Revan's mastery over the Force should be far more complete than it was by the end of KOTOR. So maybe Malak was wrong. 🙁Revan's knowledge of the dark side seems much greater than Dooku's tbh, despite that education. Proving a threat to Vitiate on a nexus (and trashing Nyriss) also strike me as more impressive than being handled easily by Yoda.
1. As Zoltan said, using Malak himself as a measuring stick also gives you the answer of KotOR Revan > Darth Revan. As a Sith Lord, he might've been more knowledgeable, but it seems as though Malak's opinion is being founded on watching the two fight. KotOR Revan's victory over Malak certainly shows a greater disparity than their duel when Revan was the Dark Lord.
2. Firstly, knowledge of the Force as a whole is what we should compare, not just knowledge of the dark side. Anyway, much greater? How so? The KotORCG states that Sith Sorcery isn't known by anyone in the KotOR era bar the Sorcerers of Rhand, IIRC. That indicates that Darth Revan wasn't versed in Sorcery, whereas Dooku clearly was — even Ventress recognized that her ability to cast complex spells of Sith Sorcery blended with Sith Alchemy to revive entire legions of undead merely comprised of "scraps and lesser arts" of Tyranus' Sith mastery.
And if we're talking about a list of powers they know, then frankly, I think Dooku wins, in fact.
As for Vitiate and Nyriss, Yoda would cream both of them as well, so...
Sorry, the Triumvirate are shown using a ritual in KotOR II, and I believe sorcerers were involved in converting Traya? That lends credence to the notion of Revan learning sorcery. It is stated that sorcery by then is an anachronism in the Campaign Guide, but nothing else.
Dooku doesn't compare to him in knowledge? I'd like to see a more fleshed-out case for this. Dooku spent seventy years as a Jedi, and was known for being one of the most knowledgeable. He then studies from the most extensive Sith archives in history (probably) for thirteen years and ends up having "near-unrivalled" Force knowledge.
If you're just talking about combat, then your argument still doesn't make much sense since Yoda would easily handle novel Vitiate or Nyriss anyway. Or Revan, for that matter.
Well from the Chronicles of Old Republic:
Unbeknownst to the Jedi Order, Darth Revan has discovered numerous Sith artifacts and holocrons, all stored in great tomb-like cities buried beneath Malachor V's surface. As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the Dark Side. He learned of the location and the true nature of Korriban, he learned of the location of other Sith artefacts, and he learned how those strong in the light side of the Force could be seduced and made to see the strength inherent in the Sith teachings. Revan knew he had discovered more than a staging area for the Mandalorian War - he had discovered an ancient, planet-sized Sith storehouse of knowledge.Bane also claimed that Revan's holocron alone surpassed all the knowledge the Brotherhood's Sith archives possessed, and found it brimming with dangerously complex rituals he wouldn't dare attempt. He also had knowledge and understanding of Vitiate's Nathema ritual, which was supposed to be the most complex every attempted, through which he invented the Thought Bomb.
So yeah, his knowledge of Sith Sorcery and the dark side in general should be incredibly profound.
And I'm saying that Dooku simply doesn't compare. Whether or not Revan would have done any better is a matter of debate, but the fact remains it's not as impressive, and he doesn't have anything as impressive.
Though of course, the idea that Yoda would easily handle Vitiate is laughable.
Chronicles has been so wrong in the past that it hurts to even bring it up, but fortunately it's not necessary here. I forgot about Bane's musings; that confirms Darth Revan's knowledge of Sorcery was indeed deeply profound. However, even when Bane studied Darth Revan's holocron, he still claimed to possess deficiencies in understanding Sorcery and had to study further to find a defense, IIRC.
Anyway, I'll drop the point.
Nah, Yoda easily handling novel Vitiate is valid. Not as easily as Dooku, of course, but still without too much trouble. Admittedly, NoVitiate's method of fighting is a key part in that, however.
I admit that Revan's Tutaminis is in considerable excess of the Count's, but that may or may not apply to other domains.