Most powerful character Nihilus can gigadrain

Originally posted by SunRazer
The fact that Kreia said there's no defense doesn't mean you can suddenly apply a no-limits fallacy to it. 😂

More importantly, Kreia also says that the technique, at its highest pinnacle of power, can consume anything that lives. She then goes on to say that Nihilus is rapidly reaching the height of its power, so he obviously can't "consume anything that lives" yet.

It isn't a no-limits fallacy. You don't see me arguing he'd beat the Ones. Just because there isn't a defense doesn't make it a fallacy. No more than it is one that, I dunno, Superman can't punch ghosts. They simply bypass his abilities. It's hardly impossible for the technique to merely operate in such a way that all known defenses fail to cover.

She says that in the context of retconned idea's about the True Sith's abilities which were never implemented, not about him supposedly being unable to consume anyone. Not sure who you even think she'd be referring to though.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Why should we think that Nihilus's drain is fundamentally different from that of, say, Krayt, who drained Luke and Abeloth for ages and didn't seem to insta-kill them?

Because it is. Its a totally different technique. Standard drain doesn't do the unique things Nihilus' technique does like scale you up to people, permanents increase your power, create absences in the force or make you addicted to using it etc etc.

Luke reasons in the RotJ: novelization that all attacks generated by the Force can be repelled by it too, before briefly doing tutanimus on Sidious's Lightning.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't a no-limits fallacy. You don't see me arguing he'd beat the Ones. Just because there isn't a defense doesn't make it a fallacy. No more than it is one that, I dunno, Superman can't punch ghosts. They simply bypass his abilities. It's hardly impossible for the technique to merely operate in such a way that all known defenses fail to cover.

I don't know what you're talking about.

She says that in the context of retconned idea's about the True Sith's abilities which were never implemented, not about him supposedly being unable to consume anyone. Not sure who you even think she'd be referring to though.

I know the context of what she's saying. My point still stands. The Ancient Sith being able to do this or not is irrelevant - Nihilus has not yet reached the point where he can consume anything that lives. That's the point of it all. These Ancient Sith - their powers retconned or not - were supposed to represent the pinnacle of Drain (where one could consume anything that lives), which Nihilus was rapidly approaching but had not yet reached.

Literally every other Force move ever can be resisted with enough raw power. Even premonitions can be jammed (Luke jamming Caedus's).

Originally posted by SunRazer
I don't know what you're talking about.

I know the context of what she's saying. My point still stands. The Ancient Sith being able to do this or not is irrelevant - Nihilus has not yet reached the point where he can consume anything that lives.

It isn't inconceivable for the attack to operate in a way that conventional defenses fail to respond to. Its not hard to figure out. To keep on the Supes train, it doesn't matter how strong he is magic still messes him up because physical strength doesn't matter against magic. The way Nihilus' technique works by exploiting the bonds between life could simply be a method which there has never been a defense invented against. Or whatever.

It doesn't, you're taking her words out of context and twisting them. Heres the actual quote:

"No, for the pinnacle of this teaching is self destructive, for its hunger keeps building and building until it has devoured everything including the student. The blind seer, her master has harnessed this technique, and he is rapidly approaching the height of its power. I fear he may even rival some of the ancient Sith, he is already more of a force than a living thing – a hole in the Force, that threatens to draw everything into it. And the teaching must die with him, or else all life will be placed in jeopardy."

You're misremembering.

@Neph: do you agree that Luke could oneshot Valkorion via a fold space of his lightsaber into his heart?

Yawn.

Why doesn't Corran Horn oneshot Vitiate by making him see spiders and then stabbing him as he screams?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
@Neph: do you agree that Luke could oneshot Valkorion via a fold space of his lightsaber into his heart?

👆

@Neph - You don't need to tell me what the quote is. I know what I'm talking about. I'm also referring to another part in the scene where she says this:

"You give others strength to act, but it is also possible to draw upon the strength of others to increase your own. It is similar to drawing upon the Force as Jedi do, but when it is touched by the power of the dark side... it is something else, something deadly. These Sith we face... they have learned how to do this. It is a technique that has been lost for some time, not seen in the days since the ancient Sith. They can use it to consume other Force Sensitives - and at the highest pinnacle of power, use it to consume anything that lives."

-- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Whereas:

" The blind seer - her Master has harnessed this technique, and he is rapidly approaching the height of its power."

-- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

In other words, Nihilus is not yet at the highest pinnacle of power, which means that he can't consume anything that lives. So Kreia actually debunks the no-limits fallacy.

Which ties into the fact that the Assassins are using the same technique, yet do not instakill anything. And that's because the technique in of itself is not an instakill. It's only an instakill when you're using it against far less powerful beings. There's nothing inherently "instakilly" about the Force Drain technique.

And by definition, it shouldn't be an instakill because the actual feeding is on death, not life, a notion repeatedly stated by KotOR II. The killing is derived from severing someone to the Force by draining their Force connection, which nobody (bar the Exile) has shown the willpower to survive (her connection wasn't drained, but it was completely severed nevertheless). So if anything, surviving this power might have something to do with willpower as well.

The way Nihilus' technique works by exploiting the bonds between life could simply be a method which there has never been a defense invented against. Or whatever.

I know how Nihilus' technique works - I made an entire blog on it. And yes, there's no "defense" in that there's no counter-technique, but like Sever Force, if you're stronger than them, they can't use it on you.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Because it is. Its a totally different technique. Standard drain doesn't do the unique things Nihilus' technique does like scale you up to people, permanents increase your power, create absences in the force or make you addicted to using it etc etc.

Wasn't it said that he mastered Drain to a level beyond the standard, which is what he uses? Pretty sure something like that was said.

If "standard" means the level used by the Sith Assassins, then yes. But there's no actual "standard" for the power.

And no, Drain Life =/= Force Drain.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Unbowed
Serves me right for ignoring my instincts. 🙄

Yoda, Kun, that general tier.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Yoda, Kun, that general tier.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
>Saying that Nihilius could gigadrain Yoda
or
>Saying that Kun and Yoda are in the same tier
Not sure what is more "LMAO" worthy, tbh.

That's an odd way to agree

Originally posted by Tondemonai
That's an odd way to agree

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I don't agree. Yoda beats either one with medium difficulty.

Top kek

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Top kek