Senya vs Darth Traya.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Remind me what Senya's saber feats are, again.

She was named the deadliest of all the Zakuul Knights, the equivalent of Jedi and Sith, while these same Knights were implied by Satele Shan to be superior to the average Jedi or Sith because of their approach which went beyond light and dark. She also defeated Vaylin in combat when "not wanting to hurt her" while a recovering Outlander and Lana Beniko would have stood no chance against her (Vaylin) in chapter 2/3.

Not too much for the elite Sith other than the fact that they're the strongest of their time. Weaker ones have killed with Choke and Lightning instantly, for what it's worth.

The Jedi Masters can individually do this: http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/5374267-twoenclaves.jpg

They also know Force techniques that are "the pinnacle of Force Mastery", with Vrook putting Dantooine!Exile in Stasis, TK'ing DS Exile's party into a wall hard enough to stun them for a few seconds, Kavar Stunning a squadron of soldiers for about twenty seconds without even gesturing and Pushing/Stunning the Exile briefly, and Zez-Kai Ell's Pushed Wookiees hard enough to inflict mortal injuries on them. We also know that Draining someone to zilch requires a huge disparity, since not even Nihilus could fully Drain Traya. So that's a huge disparity between Traya and their combined strength.

Sion has "amazingly dark and devastating powers" and is "an ultra-powerful monster of the dark side". I don't consider his M4-78 showings legit, so I won't bring them up. He does hold himself together with telekinesis and was powerful enough to draw Traya's eye, presumably from across the galaxy.

From all that only Vrook putting Dantooine Exile in stasis seems actually impressive to be honest and even then I'm not sure how powerful that version of the Exile is. The rebuilding of the Jedi Enclave on Dantooine seems pretty ambigious (don't know if it's the right word for it) since that could have happened in any number of ways. I find Vaylin's Force Power to be at least equally impressive and apparently she couldn't win through that against Senya, so I doubt Traya could. Then again, let me ask, how do you think that Traya would win against Senya?

Senya takes sabers, Traya sweeps the rest.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
She was named the deadliest of all the Zakuul Knights, the equivalent of Jedi and Sith, while these same Knights were implied by Satele Shan to be superior to the average Jedi or Sith because of their approach which went beyond light and dark. She also defeated Vaylin in combat when "not wanting to hurt her" while a recovering Outlander and Lana Beniko would have stood no chance against her (Vaylin) in chapter 2/3.

I don't think that's beyond Traya. I mean, Sion alone, vastly pre-prime, was making a career out of cutting down experts in lightsaber and Force combat, so that automatically puts him (in his prime) well beyond the reach of most Zakuul Knights. Atton beat him under a slew of negative circumstances, then basically got stomped by Traya despite attempting to ambush her. That should easily surpass being the best of the Zakuul Knights when Sion alone is well above the vast majority of them.

Vaylin doesn't appear to have anything to her credit as a swordsman, but correct me if I'm wrong.

From all that only Vrook putting Dantooine Exile in stasis seems actually impressive to be honest and even then I'm not sure how powerful that version of the Exile is. The rebuilding of the Jedi Enclave on Dantooine seems pretty ambigious (don't know if it's the right word for it) since that could have happened in any number of ways. I find Vaylin's Force Power to be at least equally impressive and apparently she couldn't win through that against Senya, so I doubt Traya could. Then again, let me ask, how do you think that Traya would win against Senya?

It's hard to say exactly how powerful the Exile is at this point, since there's few concrete showings and most of those take place before on other worlds, where we know the Exile is constantly growing stronger. We do know that much earlier in the game, the Exile was already stronger than Visas Marr, who was second only to Nihilus among Nihilus' minions in power, which includes a Sith Lord who could kill soldiers instantly with Lightning. As for feats, the Exile's read the minds of all her party members, which attracted praise from Kreia since it was apparently something masters could attempt to learn for years without success. The Exile's Battle Meditation also caused the Royalists to one-shot the Separatists on Onderon, even though they were evenly matched beforehand. And again, this stuff is all well before Dantooine.

Regarding how you don't think the other two Masters are impressive, I don't think many people can operate Stunning powers without even gesturing, never mind on an entire squad. Nor can they open doors without even gesturing, when said doors couldn't be opened by Wookiees - who can tear apart TIE fighters.

And Vaylin being equal to Traya or the collective power of the Masters? Because if it's the latter, then Traya's utterly dominated them.

How would Traya beat Senya in Force-only? If not through raw power output, then by outlasting her, I imagine. She has some insane durability and healing feats.

Nova, the only Wookie that has torn apart TIE fighters is Chewbacca, and this dude fodderizes other Wookies while poisoned.

Not a fair comparison.

In strength or overall combat?

I was under the impression that most fully-grown Wookiee males would be at least loosely comparable in strength.

I mean, Wookies fight with strength primarily and Chewbacca murked some of them fairly easily.

I also recall in-canon he defeats an elite Bounty Hunter Wookie while poisoned, so there's that. mmm.

Still, if you wanna argue any Wookie can damage TIE fighters, that works for since, y'know, this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5065349-tk+pushes+reek.png

Sure, but did he murk them in a strength contest or just hitting them in the face before they could defend themselves?

That's a Zez-Kai Ell-tier showing, lol.

I'll respond as soon as possible Nova.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Sure, but did he murk them in a strength contest or just hitting them in the face before they could defend themselves?

That's a Zez-Kai Ell-tier showing, lol.

I mean, they weren't arm wrestling, they just traded blows. Although, I should probably re-check, tbh.

You wank Pez-Kai Elk enough that ragdolling him places Traya above Dooku, so I'm taking it.

Draining him plus two others puts Traya above Dooku, yeah. Ragdolling him alone isn't a Dooku+ showing.

Draining and TK aren't really proportional, tbh.

...This is tough.

But Traya, Ig.

Senya hasn't impressed me yet.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
...This is tough.

But Traya, Ig.

Senya hasn't impressed me yet.

Kurk's gonna hate you.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I don't think that's beyond Traya. I mean, Sion alone, vastly pre-prime, was making a career out of cutting down experts in lightsaber and Force combat, so that automatically puts him (in his prime) well beyond the reach of most Zakuul Knights. Atton beat him under a slew of negative circumstances, then basically got stomped by Traya despite attempting to ambush her. That should easily surpass being the best of the Zakuul Knights when Sion alone is well above the vast majority of them.

Fair enough, for now.

Vaylin doesn't appear to have anything to her credit as a swordsman, but correct me if I'm wrong.

In chapter 3 it's stated multiple times that Lana Beniko and a recovering Outlander would stand no chance against Vaylin, it's not stated that it would be in a direct lightsaber fight but when we see the confrontation near the end of the chapter, all characters ignite their lightsabers, implying that it would've mainly been a lightsaber fight. Of course the Outlander was hindered by his carbonite poisoning, however the fact that he had Lana as backup and the extent which Vaylin was superior to the duo should largely compensate for that.

It's hard to say exactly how powerful the Exile is at this point, since there's few concrete showings and most of those take place before on other worlds, where we know the Exile is constantly growing stronger. We do know that much earlier in the game, the Exile was already stronger than Visas Marr, who was second only to Nihilus among Nihilus' minions in power, which includes a Sith Lord who could kill soldiers instantly with Lightning. As for feats, the Exile's read the minds of all her party members, which attracted praise from Kreia since it was apparently something masters could attempt to learn for years without success. The Exile's Battle Meditation also caused the Royalists to one-shot the Separatists on Onderon, even though they were evenly matched beforehand. And again, this stuff is all well before Dantooine.

Hmm that's all impressive but how could we compare it to other characters? Things like Battle meditation are difficult to use in a 1 vs 1 thread.

Regarding how you don't think the other two Masters are impressive, I don't think many people can operate Stunning powers without even gesturing, never mind on an entire squad. Nor can they open doors without even gesturing, when said doors couldn't be opened by Wookiees - who can tear apart TIE fighters.

So he can use stun on beings that can't defend themselves against that power? I don't know, not overly impressive to be honest.

And Vaylin being equal to Traya or the collective power of the Masters? Because if it's the latter, then Traya's utterly dominated them.

Traya, even as a child Vaylin was killing 10 Zakuul Knights without gesturing.

How would Traya beat Senya in Force-only? If not through raw power output, then by outlasting her, I imagine. She has some insane durability and healing feats.

Does Traya have more raw power? I mean, Senya's Gravestone feat alone would indicate that she's not lacking in that area while Traya's healing/durability would only prolong the fight.