Originally posted by UrsumelesValk really doesn't have to kill Luke's spirit, once Luke's physical body dies there's really nothing he can do; as Jedi Ghosts really can't do anything significant as spirits for the reasons I stated. Unless you can prove that they can.
So...but how kills Valk Lukes spirit then?
Also, iirc, Jedi Spirits are in a state of permanent Oneness.
Originally posted by darthbane77
Valk really doesn't have to kill Luke's spirit, once Luke's physical body dies there's really nothing he can do; as Jedi Ghosts really can't do anything significant as spirits for the reasons I stated. Unless you can prove that they can.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
He could hurt Abeloth through the Force; I'm sure he could hurt Sidious. Telekinesis, sever Force, Force light, fold space, environmental hazzards, electric judgment, etc.
Yeah, he could hurt, but kill? Abeloth never pulled any specific Force techniques except lightning, so confronting her isn't the same as confronting the most verstile Sith Lord in history, even if she was more powerful.
TK has never really been effective as a killing tool when the combatants aren't that far from each other.
Has Luke used sever Force and Force light outside DE? That was circumstantial, since Palpatine had poured 99% of his power into that Force Storm and couldn't properly defend himself. And even if Luke did succeed, what prevents Palpatine from simply willing his Force connection back?
How does Fold Space help Luke here? And besides, Palpatine also knows it.
Elaborate on "environmental hazards".
What's Luke's limit when it comes to electric judgement?
Originally posted by Azronger
Yeah, he could hurt, but kill? Abeloth never pulled any specific Force techniques except lightning, so confronting her isn't the same as confronting the most verstile Sith Lord in history, even if she was more powerful.TK has never really been effective as a killing tool when the combatants aren't that far from each other.
Has Luke used sever Force and Force light outside DE? That was circumstantial, since Palpatine had poured 99% of his power into that Force Storm and couldn't properly defend himself. And even if Luke did succeed, what prevents Palpatine from simply willing his Force connection back?
How does Fold Space help Luke here? And besides, Palpatine also knows it.
Elaborate on "environmental hazards".
What's Luke's limit when it comes to electric judgement?
1. Abeloth has also insane TK, and she isn´t just a bit more powerful than Sidious, but far more powerful.
And he killed her with Krayt's help and when (IIRC) her avatars were dying all over the galaxy. Sidious wouldn't just randomly collapse like Abeloth did.
2. Better than nothing. I could see Luke overpowering an tired Sidious, and killing him with a large object.
You know, the chances of this happening are so small it's not even worth considering, really. And the same applies to Luke.
4. Palpatine knows Fold Space?
Yes, he used it to transport his consciousness from Da Soocha to Byss instantly.
6. He killed an Slayer, while tired. This likely is far from his limit.
And how much is a Vong Slayer's durability?
Originally posted by Azronger
Yeah, he could hurt, but kill? Abeloth never pulled any specific Force techniques except lightning, so confronting her isn't the same as confronting the most verstile Sith Lord in history, even if she was more powerful.
Abeloth is so much more powerful than Sidious that the difference in "versatility" is pretty irrelevant, but for what it's worth she had those tendril things, TP, and some other moves I can't recall.
In either case, we're talking about Luke's ability to hurt Palpatine, not the reverse.
TK has never really been effective as a killing tool when the combatants aren't that far from each other.
That's because combatants aren't forced to spend all their time throwing one another. But with enough fortress-dusting throws, I'm sure Luke can take out Sidious.
Has Luke used sever Force and Force light outside DE?
He's done some similar things against Abeloth. But I think DE is sufficient; it's not like Luke would've forgotten the technique.
That was circumstantial, since Palpatine had poured 99% of his power into that Force Storm and couldn't properly defend himself.
Regardless, it shows that Luke can do it, and unless if he's criminally inept at this one particular technique for whatever reason, he's more than powerful enough relative to Sidious for it to work once he's worn Sidious down with TK + illusions + soul ripping + electric judgment.
And even if Luke did succeed, what prevents Palpatine from simply willing his Force connection back?
His trachea will get snapped in the meanwhile.
How does Fold Space help Luke here? And besides, Palpatine also knows it.
He can teleport metallic objects into his guts. And yeah Palpatine can do it too; but you were asking how Luke could effect hurt him, not whether Palpatine can do anything to retaliate.
Elaborate on "environmental hazards".
Like throwing stuff.
What's Luke's limit when it comes to electric judgement?
We don't know except that he can one-shot Slayers that aren't even supposed to be vulnerable to the Force.
I think we both agree that Luke is more powerful than Sidious, so it just comes down to whether Sidious's allegedly greater array of Force moves will make up for this; it isn't clear to me how it does. His lightning can be absorbed or deflected by Luke, his storms aren't feasible in such starting conditions, etc. Luke is also probably faster and more agile.
So, the only way I can see Luke actually killing Sidious is via Sever Force. Luke isn't killing him with his array of Force powers, given this guy's Barrier showings, or it would at the very least take weeks to wear him down by bombarding him with rocks or lightning. I doubt illusions'd work either; last time it was Luke on the receiving end when it came to a battle of wills.
The only thing I'm not familiar with is Luke's supposed "soul-ripping." Anyone mind describing that in more detail?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Doesn't that work both ways? I don't see Sidious killing Luke with lightning; I don't see precedent for a character overwhelming with lightning someone more powerful than them.
But we were talking about Luke's ability to kill Palpatine, not Palpatine's ability to retaliate, weren't we?