That revelation represents Count Dooku's perception of the event in question.The revelation in the Episode II novelization represents Yoda's experience during the ordeal.
Try to understand the context behind each revelation.
It doesn't matter. It's just a good feat for Dooku, then. Nothing to do with Valkorion.
Of-course, it is a good feat for Palpatine. However, what was my argument?My argument is that Yoda was slow at bringing his raw power to bear in a confrontation; his age had caught up with him during the era of Anakin Skywalker.
And how did you come to such a conclusion, exactly? Because he struggled with Dooku's and Sidious' lightning? Was Revan slow at bringing his raw power to bear, too, because he struggled against Vitiate?
Another factor is that it is really difficult for even the strongest Jedi to deflect Force Lightning with bare hands.
Not sure what this has to do with anything.
You will notice genuine contradiction in this matter even in official works. For example:Palpatine killed Master Windu's companions, who soon gained the upperhand. Just as Windu seemed ready to slay Palpatine, Anakin Skywalker intervened and cut off Windu's lightsaber hand.
Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
So?
That doesn't prove anything. And besides, this is irrelevant, since Valkorion can't even duel.
I would like to see this evidence.
Ant's proven it across multiple pages:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t634909.html
Then there's also the fact that Sidious wasn't at full strength during the fight due diverting his energies to drain Byss.
Exal Kressh's Force Lightning engulfed Teneb Kel's Lightsaber and shattered its hilt, destroying the Lightsaber in this manner.Good enough?
You don't get it, do you?
Palpatine was bending the blade, without even touching the hilt. Kel's blade was completely straight. In other words, Palpatine overwhelmed the lightsaber's capacity to store energy. Kressh did not. She simply destroyed the hilt. That's like saying Dooku's lightsaber can cut through other lightsabers because he sliced Anakin's hilt in two.
Do you now understand?
Insignificant?Overwhelming Lightsaber-augmented defenses of 4 powerful Jedi is more tedious task than disarming a single subject. Vitiate had to overcome energy-absorption potential of several Lightsabers while doing so. No rocket science in this.
Those four Jedi can't even begin to compare to Yoda, individually or collectively.
Vitiate didn't overwhelm the lightsaber's energy absorbtion capacity. The lightsabers themselves weren't distorted, like Palpatine managed to do. All he did was overpower the muscle strength of the Jedi. It's like a mace hitting a shield: the shield itself remains intact, but the arm holding the shield may break.
Revan managed to deflect single bolts at a time. Not the Force Storm.
He didn't even try to deflect the storm with his lightsaber.
Yoda might be stronger but Revan was more masterful
Force Mastery has literally nothing to do with this, lol.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Missed this gem.
Revan is more masterful in the ways of the Force, like it or not.
Now, a comparison for you:
Dooku gave a little growl and thrust forth his hand, loosing a line of blue lightning at the diminutive Master.
Yoda caught it in his own hand and turned it aside, but far from easily.
Taken from Episode II (novelization)
---
A dozen bolts of lightning sprang from Nyriss's hand, arcing across the room to incinerate her enemies. Instead of leaping back into the cell to avoid the deadly attack, Revan stepped forward to intercept it.
Both hands were held in front of him, his arms fully extended at shoulder height, his thumbs touching and his fingers splayed wide. He drew the bolts of lightning into his waiting grasp, channeling them away from their intended targets and absorbing their power.
"I am Revan reborn," he said to Nyriss. "And before me you are nothing."
Nyriss's eyes went wide as Revan unleashed the power of her own attack against her. She tried to throw up another Force shield, but the bolts ripped it apart and continued on unabated. The lightning engulfed her, the intense heat consuming her instantly, leaving only a pile of charred ash.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I pretty shitty comparison, but I guess Kenobi > Scourge and Surik.Keep em coming.
Meetra Surik, in particular, absorbed a normal burst of Force Lightning from Darth Nyriss without a Lightsaber at one point. The intensity of the burst knocked her to the ground however.
However, the Force Lightning Storm unleashed by Darth Nyriss to destroy her enemies, was far more potent than her normal bursts. Only Revan had the raw power and mastery to handle it.
Obi-Wan Kenobi's effort to contain Count Dooku's Force Lightning with a Lightsaber, doesn't proves his superiority over Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik in this area. They would have achieved similar result against Count Dooku in Obi-Wan's position, individually. In-fact, Meetra Surik might be capable of stopping that burst without a Lightsaber.
Your assumptions are becoming ridiculous by the hour.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDSo essentially what you're saying is that Nyriss' standard Force lightning wasn't any more pressing to Meetra and Scourge than Dooku's was Kenobi's. And in that respect, conceding your original point.
A normal burst of Force Lightning from Darth Nyriss was potent enough to reduce two (armored) guards to a charred smoking husk in an instant. Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik were able to handle bursts of similar intensity just fine.Meetra Surik, in particular, absorbed a normal burst of Force Lightning from Darth Nyriss without a Lightsaber at one point. The intensity of the burst knocked her to the ground however.
However, the Force Lightning Storm unleashed by Darth Nyriss to destroy her enemies, was far more potent than her normal bursts. Only Revan had the raw power and mastery to stop it.
Obi-Wan Kenobi's effort to contain Count Dooku's Force Lightning with a Lightsaber, doesn't proves his superiority over Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik in this area. They would have achieved similar result against Count Dooku in Obi-Wan's position, individually. In-fact, Meetra Surik might be capable of stopping that burst without a Lightsaber.
Your assumptions are becoming ridiculous by the hour.
Well, thanks I guess. 😐
Originally posted by Azronger
It doesn't matter. It's just a good feat for Dooku, then. Nothing to do with Valkorion.
My argument is that Yoda was slow at bringing his raw power to bear in a confrontation; his age had caught up with him during the era of Anakin Skywalker.
I highlighted two examples that lend credibility to my argument. Why is this even a debate now? Argument for the sake of argument
Originally posted by Azronger
And how did you come to such a conclusion, exactly? Because he struggled with Dooku's and Sidious' lightning? Was Revan slow at bringing his raw power to bear, too, because he struggled against Vitiate?
Revan was not suffering from the detrimental effects of aging at that time.
Originally posted by Azronger
Not sure what this has to do with anything.
1. Yoda was really old during the PT era
2. Even the mightiest among the Jedi find it challenging to deflect Force Lightning with raw power
Do the math.
Originally posted by Azronger
That doesn't prove anything. And besides, this is irrelevant, since Valkorion can't even duel.
Windu gained the upperhand in that confrontation. Pretty straightforward.
Originally posted by Azronger
Ant's proven it across multiple pages:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t634909.html
Originally posted by Azronger
Then there's also the fact that Sidious wasn't at full strength during the fight due diverting his energies to drain Byss.
Byss should be augmenting the power of Palpatine, not diminishing it. You forgot how Drain techniques work?
Originally posted by Azronger
You don't get it, do you?Palpatine was bending the blade, without even touching the hilt. Kel's blade was completely straight. In other words, Palpatine overwhelmed the lightsaber's capacity to store energy. Kressh did not. She simply destroyed the hilt. That's like saying Dooku's lightsaber can cut through other lightsabers because he sliced Anakin's hilt in two.
Do you now understand?
Originally posted by Azronger
Those four Jedi can't even begin to compare to Yoda, individually or collectively.Vitiate didn't overwhelm the lightsaber's energy absorbtion capacity. The lightsabers themselves weren't distorted, like Palpatine managed to do. All he did was overpower the muscle strength of the Jedi. It's like a mace hitting a shield: the shield itself remains intact, but the arm holding the shield may break.
1. Those Jedi weren't some mooks; they were among the most powerful members of the Order (perhaps in history). All of them attempted to contain Vitiate's Force Lightning Storm with their Lightsabers. Now, a Lightsaber has intrinsic properties that make it an ideal choice for absorbing different energy forms including Force Lightning; imagine the intensity needed to overwhelm energy absorption capacity of 4 x Lightsabers at the same time.
To explain my point further: why do you think Obi-Wan Kenobi was able to contain Force Lightning of Count Dooku with a Lightsaber so easily? Was he super-strong at that point in time? No. The Lightsaber did the heavy lifting on his part.
3. What became of the Lightsabers is open to interpretation because the game engine was not advanced enough to simulate every minute detail. Only a high-quality CGI animation can address this matter, but it is not coming.
Originally posted by Azronger
He didn't even try to deflect the storm with his lightsaber.
Originally posted by Azronger
Force Mastery has literally nothing to do with this, lol.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You continue to miss the point.My argument is that Yoda was slow at bringing his raw power to bear in a confrontation; his age had caught up with him during the era of Anakin Skywalker.
I highlighted two examples that lend credibility to my argument. Why is this even a debate now? Argument for the sake of argument
No, they don't lend credibility to your argument whatsoever. Simply because Yoda struggled against powerful foes doesn't mean he was "slow to bring his power to bear".
But honestly, I don't really care what kind of observations you make about Yoda, since his feats remain the same regardless of what you think about him.
Was Revan 900 years old at that time?Revan was not suffering from the detrimental effects of aging at that time.
I mentioned nothing of Revan's age. Simply that he was slow to bring his power to bear, which is true according to your logic because he struggled with someone.
But you're free to think what you want about that. It's not relevant.
Right.1. Yoda was really old during the PT era
2. Even the mightiest among the Jedi find it challenging to deflect Force Lightning with raw powerDo the math.
Yes, I know these incredibly obvious things. Is there something where you're going with this, or are you just stating it for no reason?
You can read and understand, right?Windu gained the upperhand in that confrontation. Pretty straightforward.
Yes, I can.
Yes, the source states that. Which should be obvious to literally anyone who has been subjected to RotS, whether it be the movie, novel, or comic. However, the source doesn't state how and why he gained the upperhand, so there is no contradiction.
Perhaps this should clear things up as to why he did:
But Anakin stayed frozen. At last Palpatine collapsed, exhausted. “I give up,” he said in the whispery voice of an old, old man. “I am … I am too weak. Don’t kill me. I give up.”
...
But Master Windu wasn’t listening. He raised his lightsaber — and Anakin knocked it aside. The unexpected blow sent the lightsaber flying … and left Mace defenseless against a new bolt of Force lightning. Chancellor Palpatine was faking! He wasn’t tired at all.
-RotS Junior novelization
WTFByss should be augmenting the power of Palpatine, not diminishing it. You forgot how Drain techniques work?
Yes, but he would have to devote a portion of his Force energy to utilizing Drain, like with all Force techniques. This is common knowledge.
For instance, let's say Palpatine has 100 Force points during RotS. Then he starts draining Byss, so he has to devote 50 Force points to doing so, leaving him with 50 Force points that he can use on other tasks. And because he drained Byss non-stop until his death, he never gained those 50 Force points back. Make sense?
Well, both accomplished something that the other didn't.
And what Palpatine accomplished is a hell of a lot more impressive than what Kressh did.
This is your assumption; not some concrete evidence.1. Those Jedi weren't some mooks; they were among the most powerful members of the Order (perhaps in history). All of them attempted to contain Vitiate's Force Lightning Storm with their Lightsabers. Now, a Lightsaber has intrinsic properties that make it an ideal choice for absorbing different energy forms including Force Lightning; imagine the intensity needed to overwhelm energy absorption capacity of 4 x Lightsabers at the same time.
To explain my point further: why do you think Obi-Wan Kenobi was able to contain Force Lightning of Count Dooku with a Lightsaber so easily? Was he super-strong at that point in time? No. The Lightsaber did the heavy lifting on his part.
3. What became of the Lightsabers is open to interpretation because the game engine was not advanced enough to simulate every minute detail. Only a high-quality CGI animation can address this matter, but it is not coming.
Again, Vitiate did not overwhelm the lightsabers' energy absorbtion capabilities. He simply "broke the arm holding the shield", but not the shield itself.
The rest is, again, completely obvious information.
Because he figured that he might loose his Lightsaber during the ordeal. Remember: He calculated his options before the attack.
Again, thanks for stating the obvious. Has nothing to do with my point, though.
A Jedi has to be exceptionally skilled in the use of Tutaminis and/or energy absorption techniques to pull it off. Incredible raw power only facilitates his effectiveness in this regard.
More obvious information.