I didn't say they were worth nothing impressive. But the TCW Obi-Wan feat is better since he's just better in everything - logically, through feats, accolades, etc.
The argument that the TPM duo might be better than TCW Obi-Wan because "we don't know" is an appeal to ignorance and devoid of any logical or evidential basis.
Originally posted by SunRazerThe argument that the TPM duo might be better than TCW Obi-Wan because "we don't know" is an appeal to ignorance and devoid of any logical or evidential basis.
I didn't say they're better. I said just because we have nothing to power scale them against doesn't mean they are worse.
For example, Pre-DD everyone assumed Kenobi or Maul would stomp Vos in Canon, (because we never saw much of him). But turns out he was on their level.
Unfortunately though Canon is unlikely to give us much in terms of TPM era stories for us to learn more.
But for what it's worth, Qui-Gon has been referred as a "Powerful" Jedi Master more than once in Canon. And TPM novel goes to great lengths to praise his sword fighting skills, though I guess that's more Legends. And TPM Kenobi clearly wasn't fodder either, so adding him helps a significant amount.
The TPM novel isn't Canon. Heck, the TPM novel claims that Qui-Gon's master considered him the best of all the Jedi he had trained in 400 years. He's been retconned to Dooku.
As for your former point, yes, they're better, based on current evidence. The assumptions for Canon Vos were fine until DD came out, based on the evidence available at the time.
On the other hand, you're still relying on a "we don't know" case, which is very weak.
Originally posted by SunRazerAs for your former point, yes, they're better, based on current evidence. The assumptions for Canon Vos were fine until DD came out, based on the evidence available at the time.
It was a case of "we didn't know". Most would have assumed ROTS Kenobi would have stomped ROTS Vos, which turned out not to be the case.
Originally posted by SunRazer
On the other hand, you're still relying on a "we don't know" case, which is very weak.
Actually no, I've given a logical case not to simply write off the Qui-Gon/Ob-Wan duo. So better evidence is required for TCW Kenobi's superiority over that duo than simply "more feats". Power scaling is just as important as feats, and in the absence of proper power scaling we shouldn't just jump to conclusions which can't be argued. Because that would be assumptions based on ignorance as noted in Vos's case.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
It was a case of "we didn't know". Most would have assumed ROTS Kenobi would have stomped ROTS Vos, which turned out not to be the case.Actually no, I've given a logical case not to simply write off the Qui-Gon/Ob-Wan duo. So better evidence is required for TCW Kenobi's superiority over that duo than simply "more feats". Power scaling is just as important as feats, and in the absence of proper power scaling we shouldn't just jump to conclusions.
Based on that showing in TCW being his only feats, yeah.
And no, my argument is never "more feats", but "better feats". And better accolades, scaling, etc.
We're not supposed to wait in the dark until new material comes out. We have to make judgment calls for the now.
Originally posted by darthbane77*sigh* The fact that Kanan was in a state of Oneness. FPJ described the situation (IIRC) as if the Force was controlling Kanan in that moment.
What circumstances are you referring to exactly? Maul had Kanan dead to right and then he gets thrown off a cliff, that's pretty ****ing embarrassing for Maul.