Did Palpatine bury the Lusankya with Telekinesis?

Started by The_Tempest9 pages

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Tempest hasn't *broken* Neph per say, but he's definitely changed him, like Vitiate and Revan. Neph just displays a bitter outlook towards everything, and has this weird, snarky way of responding to people that's incredibly off-putting.

It's a sad tragedy because he used to be one of the nicest members of the forum. I should condemn Tempest for this, but oh well.

Neph has experienced the same metamorphosis LeGenD went through.

Will respond ASAP, I'm just trying to find the passage from Wedge's perspective.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Tempest hasn't *broken* Neph per say, but he's definitely changed him, like Vitiate and Revan. Neph just displays a bitter outlook towards everything, and has this weird, snarky way of responding to people that's incredibly off-putting.

It's a sad tragedy because he used to be one of the nicest members of the forum. I should condemn Tempest for this, but oh well.

Tempest and I have barely interacted for quite a while. He certainly hasn't had an effect on me beyond a dislike for him personally.

But the damage has been done. I don't even mean this in a smug way.

He hasn't done anything except made me dislike him more. He barely posts.

My present displeasure isn't even to do with him, its due to technical faults with my PS3 controller.

I mean in general you're more hostile to people.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Your emotional outburst is unwarranted, bestie. Don't mistake my gentle, objective assessment of your shortcomings for the abject condescension others seem to have for you.

😂
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Tempest hasn't *broken* Neph per say, but he's definitely changed him, like Vitiate and Revan. Neph just displays a bitter outlook towards everything, and has this weird, snarky way of responding to people that's incredibly off-putting.

It's a sad tragedy because he used to be one of the nicest members of the forum. I should condemn Tempest for this, but oh well.

😆

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I mean in general you're more hostile to people.

More people are hostile to me.

Why?

Neph's kewl, tbh.

I don't recall having any displeasure moments with him besides his debating --- even then, I have problems with everyone's debating that isn't mine, lmao. I'm sure the same can be said vise versa

Drafting my argument now, Ell. It took me forever to hunt down a copy of Wedge's excerpt about the Lusankya, but Silver had it in his respect thread. Trying to load some more stuff in Photobucket for our purposes.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Neph's kewl, tbh.

I don't recall having any displeasure moments with him besides his debating ---

👆

In a nutshell. Neph is a great guy, just a genuinely terrible debater.

OK, Photobucket isn't loading shit for me, so I just copied the passage in manually.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
On what grounds?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It is. It says that he used the dark side to bury it. In English usage it wouldn't be unusual for this to refer to his manipulation of any potential obstacles to its burying; see my driving across the border analogy.

In the absence of all other evidence, we would indeed assume telekinesis as the most straightforward interpretation, but in conjunction with the other sources, the simpler explanation is actually the one I'm peddling, .i.e. that he was just using telepathy.

Regarding your analogy, one can easily infer from context that the "influence" exerted would be political and not physical. The validity of the contrary interpretation would require imprecise phrasing.

Likewise, the grammatically precise and straightforward interpretation in this instance is that the Emperor used the dark side to bury the ship; to have just applied TP to the burial would be to facilitate the burial or to conceal the burial. TK is the straightforward and most precise interpretation.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
See above; that's what two other sources say.

Yes, but those other two sources are not this source.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Your interpretation requires us to just assume that these two sets of sources just decided to omit information for the heck of it, and it just happens to be that it looks as if the source in the OP were just a more vaguely worded version of the other two. It's not a matter of whether there's a contradiction, it's a matter of whether it's a plausible explanation.

It's absolutely plausible, since supplementary sources omit and add new information all the time, particularly when the event in question was never actually depicted on-screen or on page.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Of course, we both know that wasn't the authorial intent. What are the chances that the author independently thought up of Palpatine using the dark side to bury a star destroyer? No, they obviously transcribed from the original source, which referenced Palpatine's command of the dark side being enough to TP Coruscant, took the "dark side" phrase, and then didn't notice how vaguely worded it was. Any conclusion that he was using telekinesis is purely a product of this semantics mishap.

The Lusankya—a Super Star Destroyer eight kilometers length—laid waste to the area beneath which it had lain buried for years. Green turbolaser bolts pounded the cityscape, freeing the ship from the ferrocrete and transparisteel prison in which it had laired. Wedge knew Super Star Destroyers had only come into service after the Battle of Yavin, which meant the Lusankya had to have been created and hidden on Coruscant before the battle of Endor. Unless the constructor droids just built it there, then built over it. The idea that a hundred-square-kilometer area of the planet could have been razed and rebuilt to hide a Super Star Destroyer seemed beyond belief, especially with no one noticing the ship's insertion into the hole. Could the Emperor's power through the dark side of the Force have been sufficient to compel thousands or millions of people to forget having seen the Lusankya being buried? As hideous as that idea seemed, Wedge hoped it was the truth. The likely alternative—that the Emperor had ordered the deaths of all the witnesses—seemed that much more horrible.

The phrasing of the original passage from the Krytos Trap and the Fact File is quite different. Namely because Wedge's speculation does distinguish the Emperor's telepathic concealment of the Lusankya from the actual act of burying it, which is something that the Fact File does not do.

Speaking of speculation, I don't know what the odds are that an author elected to add the TK angle to the burial, nor do I need to. I just know what the text says.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Demonstrate to who? Nobody remembers it happening...

Coruscant's citizenry doesn't, no. But we don't know if Vader was present, another Inquisitor, or if even the demonstration in question was for Palpatine himself, as a test of his abilities.

Which is why we end where we began: the source very clearly indicates that Palpatine literally buried the ship with the dark side. As you yourself concede, this is the straightforward interpretation. There's no reason to get hung up on the other sources in question, because neither of them actually retcon the Fact File.

Very good. Added it to my RT.

Yes, but those other two sources are not this source.
I find this the most compelling supporting argument tbh, the Fact File should be expected to stand by its contexts and its contexts alone, and not rely on the reader to by aware of other information that it has not described.

In which case it either meant what it said, or this is a grammatical error.

?

He was ragging on you for your gaff about there being no contradiction between Palpatine burying it and engineers doing so.

Hey bestie. He wisely edited his post. So pix or it didn't happen.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Hey bestie. He wisely edited his post. So pix or it didn't happen.

You two are funny. I remember a time not long ago when I would come here and people told you to get a room lol. Guess times have changed. Neph is correct, I was, but then I realized that isn't the contradiction you were referring to. At least I thought you later spoke of what you were saying wasn't a contradiction. If I was initially correct.... then how on God's green earth could that not be a contradiction lol

Re: Did Palpatine bury the Lusankya with Telekinesis?

Yes, he fvcking did.

Yes, it was a demonstration of Palpatine's power because he made people to forget about the incident. And his imperials buried it. That's all. No source contradicts the other.