Where do you rank Count Dooku among the Sith Lords?

Started by MythLord4 pages

You can, tho... Granted, Vader's sheer power-growth from doing sh!t like that is what makes him superior to Tyranus.

You're basing this off arbitrary rankings than anything else really. mmm

I don't see any Anakin besides the one that raped Dooku in RotS collapsing that cathedral in that condition.

Actually, I'm more basing it off of any Vader pre-ANH being a "shadow of Anakin", tbh.

Anakin's already done similar things just by yelling at Dooku while angry, the same anger that was noted as hindering him.

Anyways, the only reason why I don't see someone like Dooku pulling that sh!t off in that condition is due to his lack-luster durability in juxtaposition to Vader, not to mention Vader's insane drive at the time(wanting to find his wife and whatnot, his ultimate motivation, I'd imagine).

Originally posted by MythLord
Actually, I'm more basing it off of any Vader pre-ANH being a "shadow of Anakin", tbh.

Yeah, of Anakin, but as of Mustafar he was already Vader.
Also, it seems like the quote refers to Skill.

And power, tbh. Further supported by Lucas.

I'm pretty sure Fightsaber was referring specifically to his dueling prowess, hence, the FIGHTSABER, lal. Plus, as Urs says, it was prolly referring to Anakin as of his peak anyway, you know; the same one that raped Dooku.

Anakin didn't rape Dooku until he got enraged, dear. You people just have no idea how to interpret Stover properly and take every hyperbole legitimately...

And Lucas seems to think that Vader is ~ Tyranus and inferior to Anakin in power, and we all just looove using Lucas' quotes about Vader's power, don't we my love?

Anakin was winning with or without the rage, it's just with the rage he completely demolished him. Plus, as Ant and others have proved, "Zonakin" arguably became a standard thing for Anakin after the events of Tyranus' killing.

It's a good thing Lucas isn't in charge anymore, and evidence clearly point to the contrary. Plus, being more analogous with Dooku and Maul than Sheev, doesn't make him their equal, use your brain, lal.

Originally posted by MythLord
Anakin didn't rape Dooku until he got enraged, dear. You people just have no idea how to interpret Stover properly and take every hyperbole legitimately...

And Lucas seems to think that Vader is ~ Tyranus and inferior to Anakin in power, and we all just looove using Lucas' quotes about Vader's power, don't we my love?

👆

Dooku was winning until they broke the saberlock.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Anakin was winning with or without the rage, it's just with the rage he completely demolished him. Plus, as Ant and others have proved, "Zonakin" arguably became a standard thing for Anakin after the events of Tyranus' killing.

Yes, but winning without it was extremely hard for him, given how Tyranus knocked him on his ass twice and managed to stalemate him/fend him off effectively.
This is backed up by the New Essential Chronology that notes Dooku only fought for dear life when Anakin got enraged.

And there really is no proof Zonakin was his standard, afterwards.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
It's a good thing Lucas isn't in charge anymore, and evidence clearly point to the contrary. Plus, being more analogous with Dooku and Maul than Sheev, doesn't make him their equal, use your brain, lal.

Yet you use Lucas to prove Vader is 4/5s of Sidious. o.o
And that means Tyranus, Vader and Maul are all fairly close. Granted, Maul has reached a new, all-time low... Tyranus hasn't. His low is in the past.

Dooku was never winning against Anakin, but per pretty much all sources bar the novel and comic, Anakin was at most holding the slight edge.

Lol Stover makes it as if Dooku began to win after taunting him. Sidious's involvement cost him the win.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Dooku was never winning against Anakin,

Right, except for the movie of course.

Dooku landing a leeway kick on Anakin that floors him for a few seconds isn't a win.

The script also makes it clear that Dooku isn't winning.

Wow, how KMC has changed...
Dooku used to be a god on here.

Originally posted by red8
Wow, how KMC has changed...
Dooku used to be a god on here.

👆

Originally posted by SunRazer
Dooku landing a leeway kick on Anakin that floors him for a few seconds isn't a win.

The script also makes it clear that Dooku isn't winning.

Doing it after forcing his saber back so hard that Anakin unbalances while ragdolling Kenobi is though. So is blocking Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time with one hand while they make clear grimaces of exertion, when he was able to actually force Obi-Wans lightsaber up to block Anakins like it wasn't even there. So is taunting Anakin while in a bladelock while forcing his saber back enough that Anakin has to lean backwards to avoid it while moaning.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Doing it after forcing his saber back so hard that Anakin unbalances while ragdolling Kenobi is though.

Yes, quite an overlooked feat. It obviously owes much to Dooku's mastery of leverage, but regardless, that's a momentary advantage, not a win. He could've sent Anakin flying with a kick, but that doesn't mean he would've won the fight.

I mean, right before that, Anakin was driving Dooku rapidly up the stairs. Dooku does manage to gain the advantage in critical moments, but that doesn't mean he was winning for most of the fight - he was being driven back. It's still to his credit that he can perform these showings, of course.

So is blocking Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time with one hand while they make clear grimaces of exertion, when he was able to actually force Obi-Wans lightsaber up to block Anakins like it wasn't even there.

Dooku was controlling Obi-Wan's saber to move it into the path of Anakin's. That doesn't have anything to do with beating Anakin.

So is taunting Anakin while in a bladelock while forcing his saber back enough that Anakin has to lean backwards to avoid it while moaning.

You can taunt whenever you want, lol. That doesn't decide whether or not you're winning. Anakin leaned backwards briefly, not throughout the entire saberlock, by the way.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yes, quite an overlooked feat. It obviously owes much to Dooku's mastery of leverage, but regardless, that's a momentary advantage, not a win. He could've sent Anakin flying with a kick, but that doesn't mean he would've won the fight.

I mean, right before that, Anakin was driving Dooku rapidly up the stairs. Dooku does manage to gain the advantage in critical moments, but that doesn't mean he was winning for most of the fight - he was being driven back. It's still to his credit that he can perform these showings, of course.

Dooku was controlling Obi-Wan's saber to move it into the path of Anakin's. That doesn't have anything to do with beating Anakin.

You can taunt whenever you want, lol. That doesn't decide whether or not you're winning. Anakin leaned backwards briefly, not throughout the entire saberlock, by the way.

If Dooku didn't have to deal with Obi-Wan he likely could have ended the fight right there. Besides, I only said that he was winning for most of the fight, not that he won.

Retreating isn't the same as losing. Theres no evidence Dooku was being driven back instead of just tactically conceding ground against an aggressive duelist.

He blocked Anakin with 1 hand while doing that to Obi-Wan, which suggests he was comfortably blocking Anakin's strikes.

Yeah, because he was being pushed back. The sabers were closer to Anakin's face and he leaned back to avoid them when they moved towards him. Thats called losing a bladelock.

I think we can also count forcing Anakin back enough that he can force push Obi-Wan away. Its more evidence of him controlling the fight and dominating the pair.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If Dooku didn't have to deal with Obi-Wan he likely could have ended the fight right there. Besides, I only said that he was winning for most of the fight, not that he won.

Not really. There's lots of moments where characters fall down but come back up and keep fighting, sometimes even fighting on to win.

Retreating isn't the same as losing. Theres no evidence Dooku was being driven back instead of just tactically conceding ground against an aggressive duelist.

Well, there's the script.

He blocked Anakin with 1 hand while doing that to Obi-Wan, which suggests he was comfortably blocking Anakin's strikes.

He blocked Anakin's strike by driving his and Obi-Wan's blade into it, which interrupted the swing and weakened the kinetic energy it produced. That doesn't mean he was comfortably blocking Anakin's strikes at all.

Yeah, because he was being pushed back. The sabers were closer to Anakin's face and he leaned back to avoid them when they moved towards him. Thats called losing a bladelock.

He wasn't doing that the entire time in the bladelock, as I said.

I think we can also count forcing Anakin back enough that he can force push Obi-Wan away. Its more evidence of him controlling the fight and dominating the pair.

Saw what you did there. Terrible pun for somebody who claims to be British.

Anyways, you mean this?