Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah, you use my tone as an excuse to not engage me on substance. For all your tough guy macho talk, you get so pissed off when I call you an idiot over the internet. 😆
Oh your tone isn't the reason, he asked why I get along with him better.
So I'm not sure what "macho tough guy" talk I do, because I don't like SJW's and political correctness?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
So why is it not political correctness to say that I shouldn't call you an idiot? Is there a "safe space" only around Surtur?
Damn dude, you pretend to be smart and you say silly things. You can call me whatever you feel like. It doesn't mean I can't point out your smugness. Nor does it mean I can't point out situations of the pot calling the kettle black.
At McKinsey we pretty much exclusively hire MSc graduates with an GPA over 4.0 and PhD graduates. Google follows a similar recruitment. Which makes sense, since the competitive state of mind is a lot more valuable than experience when it comes to consultant work and programming.
As for the thread, it depends on how they'd be designing the rockets. If it's a specific—but advanced—task like writing a program to find the optimized shape of the rocket, then Lily would be more appealing. If it's more general, then John would be more appealing.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Not sure if you linked to an entry level position, and it's in safety engineering, which is a more specialized field and, as you could imagine, more risk adverse. An entry software engineer could certainly be straight out of college. To be blunt, this isn't a matter of contention - regardless of whether you think this should happen, there's no question that it does, it happens all the time.
That's an entry-level position: all positions above that have some sort of management title in it (supervisor, manager, lead, director, etc.)
I'm the opposite: it is up for contention and I hold that it is extremely rare that someone gets a lucky break, like you describe, and gets right into those positions (and almost every time it happens, it is either pure nepotism or borderline nepotism...but as long as they are qualified and can do the job, I'm okay with a dash of nepotism: it is part of the game). If what you said was correct, then those people in those huge "team" shots at SpaceX would have lots of young people who look 20-22. None of them look that young.
I'm really trying to buy what you're selling but I don't see any evidence of it on the internet.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I'm a much more blunt debater than you are, at least when I don't have any serious investment in changing people's minds diplomatically.
Ho-ho-ho! My young innocent friend...
Well, then, I'll just accept that you seem easy to get along with until proven otherwise. I see shit slinging from all over. But I still think you should apologize for TI for bringing stuff out of the PMs, even if it was taken out of context on purpose to one-up his insults.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Well Astner should get called out for doing the same thing to me, and for TI and Surtur asking him to post the actual message -
I'm not up-to-date or informed on all the details of this drama. And I'd rather not get into the details. If you think yourself better than these people, be better. Apologize with sincerity. Then don't lower yourself to getting involved with that kind of internet drama. From what they say about you, you probably have a really great future. Right?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
- but regardless, we could have a whole conversation about the ethics of negative reciprocation if you want, just not here. You can PM me if it's really important to you.
Okay, acknowledged but politely rejected. Let's steer away from this particular topic to keep the putrescence to a minimum. If you'd like to respond to me on this particular topic in your thread one more time, please do. But I promise not to post about it, anymore.
Originally posted by Astner
At McKinsey we pretty much exclusively hire MSc graduates with an GPA over 4.0 and PhD graduates. Google follows a similar recruitment. Which makes sense, since the competitive state of mind is a lot more valuable than experience when it comes to consultant work and programming.As for the thread, it depends on how they'd be designing the rockets. If it's a specific—but advanced—task like writing a program to find the optimized shape of the rocket, then Lily would be more appealing. If it's more general, then John would be more appealing.
He never said they'd be designing rockets. If that's the job, then Lily has no business being hired without having experience designing rockets. John is the easy choice in your scenario.
I really don't know what to say, Dadudemon. The six figure salary for college grads at Google is something I can personally verify through talking directly with its HR on a professional, contractual capacity, and recent graduate friends who've worked there or at similar places, some from which I've been told exact base salaries (one as high as 140k). There are even interns at Silicon Valley who make the rate of six figures.
And this isn't a unicorn idea - it's common knowledge among everyone in this industry. You are, to be frank, just incredibly ignorant about the subject matter. I don't know if I should bother pulling up the data when you're basically contesting from your gut. You sound as misinformed as someone incredulous that NFL starting quarterbacks can make millions of dollars.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I really don't know what to say, Dadudemon. The six figure salary for college grads at Google is something I can personally verify through talking directly with its HR on a professional, contractual capacity, and recent graduate friends who've worked there or at similar places, some from which I've been told exact base salaries (one as high as 140k). There are even interns at Silicon Valley who make the rate of six figures.
I can also personally un-verify that, too, with direct contacts who were hired for far less than that. This is why they are anecdotes. One-off examples don't really count from either of us.
We can agree that it is rare, yes? How many tops of the tops people can possibly exist during a hiring season? Exactly. And how many of those can land at the top 5 most prestegious places? Exactly. We are dealing with fractions of fractions. Eventually, you end up to where your Lily is just catching a very lucky break (or has a connection). You shouldn't believe this stuff will happen.
Here's a tip: if Lilly can get practical experience working full time while going to school full time, she'll land a job like this. If you want to be Lily, work full time. Don't think you can do it with the workload of school? Too bad. I did it. 🙂 And I was married at the time with two children.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
And this isn't a unicorn idea - it's common knowledge among everyone in this industry. You are, to be frank, just incredibly ignorant about the subject matter. I don't know if I should bother pulling up the data when you're basically contesting from your gut. You sound as misinformed as someone incredulous that NFL starting quarterbacks can make millions of dollars.
See, I how the same opinion of it as you do of me: I think you're incredibly naive and ignorant of how the real world works. You're clutching onto a pipe dream. I've responded to your thread, given you real no-nonsense advice, and you can choose to ignore if it you'd like. When you hit those walls of failure when you're not within the confines of a comfortably controlled academic world, you'll either listen to my advice or ignore it and spiral into a very sad fall (this happens quite often with prodigies).
If you knew how many of your types I have seen (the ones that have myopic and uncomfortably optimistic world views about how the adult world works), you'd probably get discouraged.
By the way, so many times, I've wanted to tell you how naive and ignorant you are but resisted because it's just plain rude. Since you've opened the door, I can now just respond with a "no you."
I don't know if your absurdly dramatic condescension is trolling or just social cluelessness, but let me simplify this for you in a way you'll understand:
This is not a question of "wisdom" or "life experience". It's literally a factual question of what a company's pay scale is. Your attempt to inject your life experience or dubious wisdom into an issue you could look up in thirty seconds is one of the most awkward appeals to authority I've ever seen. You stroke me as someone who when asked whether its going to rain tomorrow tries to argue with meteorologists by citing your "real world experience" and old folksy wisdom. It's bizarre and cringey.
Since you continue to make shit up despite having never worked in the industry (hint: my real world experience in this area is greater than yours), I'm going to post some more thorough numbers when I get on my computer, from my naive and silly ability to use google.
Edit -
The most I ever paid a "software engineer" was 107k a year without bonus. When I hired her, it was for a manager position: she'd be leading a team. She just so happened to have 20 years of experience. Granted, this was in Oklahoma and locality pay would be adjusted on the coasts for something like this.
And since I even posted the salary range for SpaceX for the job you had in mind for this thread, whose range just so happens to be near the top end for what I'm describing for a different job, that should seal the deal. At this point, I think you're just arguing against me because it is too difficult to admit you are wrong about the pay. You'll make $64K at SpaceX, if that's your career path. I posted the link and everything. Perhaps inflation will raise it to $67K? You know who makes that top end on those jobs? The management who have 20 years of experience.
Horse to water, drink, bla bla bla, good luck.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I don't know if your absurdly dramatic condescension is trolling or just social cluelessness,
Not dramatic at all, but it is condescension of the same caliber that you dished to me. One could even say I was just puppeting your own strategy and so, you have insulted yourself, right?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
but let me simplify this for you in a way you'll understand:
Clueless irony or did you do that on purpose for comedic effect? Regardless, I was amused.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
This is not a question of "wisdom" or "life experience". It's literally a factual question of what a company's pay scale is.
Then the thread is done because I posted it for SpaceX, already and it shows the median is far below your desired 6 figures.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Your attempt to inject your life experience or dubious wisdom into an issue you could look up in thirty seconds is one of the most awkward appeals to authority I've ever seen.
This is probably you being unintentionally hilariously hypocritical. What about all those people you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, who got hired on immediately making six figures?
I mean...you literally asked us who would you rather hire, right? You asked me for my wisdom. I shot down your expected outcome (as I later found out), and it made you angry. So make fun of the obvious wisdom I've injected into your reality, but it doesn't disappear because you don't like it.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Since you continue to make shit up despite having never worked in the industry (hint: my real world experience in this area is greater than yours), I'm going to post some more thorough numbers when I get on my computer, from my naive and silly ability to use google.
You do that. You pwn those newbz.
But the discussion is over and I've already poured water all over your fire. There's not even smoke coming from your camp, anymore. The tiny fire you thought was a huge bonfire has long since been extinguished days ago. The last vestiges of an argument you thought you had were severed the moment you revealed your SpaceX desires.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
SpaceX is notorious for underpaying its employees. I was talking about Google.
Is this all you can muster in a reply?
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Google%2c_Inc./Salary/Job/Software-Engineer
About 16% have less than 1 year of experience. Guess which end of the payscale they fall on? The 80K a year end. Guess who falls on the high-end? The ones with ridiculous amounts of experience.
Be honest: do you really really believe you'll graduate and make 6 figures at Google right out of college?
Work while getting your masters. Then it is a much much better chance. Seriously.