Revan and the Unbalancing of the Galaxy Feat

Started by Beniboybling18 pages

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Indeed

Who wasn't capable of using his full potential

So what was the compensation other than drawing on Mortis to a more efficient extent than the Ones?

Aside from when Mortis allowed him to.

I mean that's the argument pal, through Mortis, Anakin was able to achieve his maximum potential, with evidently far outstripped the Ones, and what they could do with the nexus themselves.

I'll grant you that off of Mortis, the Ones would stomp, but if through whatever means he was able to access his full potential again, I don't see why they wouldn't be crushed a second time.

They're about 1 million years old and can teleport

They frankly have all the time in the world to wreak havoc

Huh, this is what being Endless Mike feels like

I'm having fun :hmm

Fair, but if Plagueis and Palpatine were to fight each other for ages, I don't see the galaxy being ruined.

Again there is a big difference between creating a few wormholes (which Palpatine couldn't even do until RotJ) and destroying the entire galaxy.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I look forward to more of your incredulous attempts at rebuttals. I.e. that abomination of a counter you posted in my beautiful, and as of yet unchallenged, Valkorion post.

But you'll see soon enough.

Again, I look forward to it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Aside from when Mortis allowed him to.

Is that what actually happened?

I'm honestly asking because I don't remember at this point

Sorry for cutting out the rest of that post, but until that's answered, I'd just be asking the same question *shrugs*

Fair, but if Plagueis and Palpatine were to fight each other for ages, I don't see the galaxy being ruined.

They don't have their life span, so why would the results be the same?

Again there is a big difference between creating a few wormholes (which Palpatine couldn't even do until RotJ) and destroying the entire galaxy.

And nothing says the Ones need to destroy it in an instance

Nothing points to it outside of assumption

They have the longevity to **** up the galaxy over a long period of time, doing it with Sidious' shit would be overkill in their life span *shrugs*

Anyway

Going to have to duck out

I'm an idiot and forgot to do my methods section for my Thesis proposal

Well, not forgot, more avoided

But still :maybe

I'll handle the blasphemers while you're gone. 👆

ILS, your argument is interesting. Interesting in the sense that it rests on a blatant double-standard that is ignored by you and every other member who considers the feat impressive. For whatever reason, you dismiss the quotes provided by the characters in Shadow of Revan, and yet consistently cite the Darth Plagueis novel as an impartial and absolute source. What's funny is that the Darth Plagueis novelization reads from the perspective of a third-person limited narrator that has, perhaps, the most biased pro-Sith view out of any novelization ever pushed in the Star Wars universe. Of course, however, let's ignore that, and yet dismiss characters like Lana Beniko or Spindrall, who have no emotional attachment to their claims and have proven to be masters of farseeing or sense capabilities.

[which is not entirely different from the linked video below - a Force user's presence having a lasting impact on another's senses, even over great distances.]

It's absolutely different. Firstly, the other Jedi and Sith didn't feel this. Only Dooku made note of it, principally due to the fact that he shares a connection and history with Savage Opress. Secondly, Dooku merely notes of how Savage Opress is getting stronger and that events are in motion that can threaten him. The characters in Shadow of Revan mention not a character getting stronger, but the disturbance in the Force increasing, encompassing nearly all aspects of the Force to the point where it's potentially affecting the minds of those in the galaxy. Not only is no comparison to be made, but the sheer thought that any parallel can be drawn is horrifying.

Starting from this paragraph is important for what follows; the premise is that, even without an innate talent for, say, Sith Sorcery, one can become a master of the art through sheer willpower; in other words, by exerting your will over the Force, to make the impossible possible.

Revan's done that by literally resurrecting his corpse from the dead without the use of anything other than his willpower, which is an unrivaled feat in Star Wars. In the cases of Darth Krayt and Darth Maul, those characters never actually died, but rather reached the brink of death. Revan was fully killed and came back to life, as remarked by a number of sources at the event.

It’s suggested that Plagueis does not know of any other Sith to have been capable of recreating what he is going to do in the later text; however, he knows who Vitiate is, which I think is telling.

This another consistent theme in your post. On how characters like Vitiate "failed" to accomplish this, but Darth Plagueis and Palpatine succeeded.

What Darth Plagueis, and you, fail to realize is that Vitiate never even tried to do this in the first place.


Revan’s shit wasn’t felt by absolutely anyone with a connection to the Force, trained or otherwise. Pretty telling that this is a bigger deal. The Force hasn’t just gone through a “mere paradigm shift”, i.e a change in pattern, or “disturbance”, but rather a “tangible alteration”. In other words, a change that feels so real you can touch it, which suggests something of greater permanency than just feeling Revan or Savage Opress from across the galaxy.

The quote you are referring two doesn't state "absolutely anyone with a connection to the Force," but rather anyone "strong in the Force." Revan's disturbance in the Force, based on all existing evidence we have, falls likewise in the same category. That being said, I have no clue why you're attributing "a chance in pattern" to not a "tangible alteration," because that blatantly fits the description." If something is changed, it is altered. If something is felt, it is tangible. In the case of Revan's unbalancing, The Force was both altered and the result was a tangible recognition of such.

Revan did not challenge the Force - the universal, all-binding energy field which pervades every living thing and exerts it’s will via Midichlorians - for sovereignty. He did not suffuse - spread through/over - the entire galaxy with the Dark Side, bearing in mind that this is only one aspect of a “Force” that is made up of equal parts “Light Side”, which even when it is disturbed or out of perfect balance, retains enough amounts of both that it does not rebalance itself naturally. He did not “age etheric war”, “bringing his will to bear” and eventually make the Force “yield” “as if some deity had been tipped from it’s throne.”

And yet the end result was nearly identical. 😂 That's exactly my entire point. Palpatine and Darth Plagueis go through this extensive, elaborate process and yet the end result is still comparable to what Revan is doing by just strolling around. Revan's mere presence is a blatant challenge to the Force, because it constitutes as a threat that is disturbing its very fabric. The disturbance that Revan's mere presence caused was "spread through" the entire galaxy, being felt by both Jedi and Sith alike. And for the final quote, again, this is from the perspective of Darth Plagueis and Palpatine. The fact you actually take that at face value is ridiclous, since we know that the Force did not "yield," since the text earlier makes note that it didn't fight back at all. Palpatine wrongfully assumed that this was due to their sheer power and will, but rather the Force opted to simply create the Chosen One to enact its will against them.

As we know, the result of this was that the Dark Side clouded the senses of every Jedi, including Yoda, even during their deepest meditations. They couldn’t sense Sidious’ presence in either those meditations or right in front of him. Hell, Sidious before TPM gave Maul distant tours of the Jedi temple and the Jedi were none-the-wiser.

A plethora of sourcebooks also attribute this to the dark side nexus that existed directly below the Jedi Temple, as established by the Legends publication of Force and Destiny.

[Anything to do with midichlorian manipulation]

It's a more impressive display of willpower to directly rise from the dead than to study and gradually manipulate midichlorians over the course of years. I don't know how the former could conceivably be considered more impressive. That being said, the author directly stated in an interview that midichlorian manipulation has nothing to do with power, but rather Darth Plagueis' motivation and determination. Thus, anything involving it doesn't impress me. And that makes sense, too, since The Jedi Path states that *anything* is possible given enough time or concentration. I have no clue why midichlorian manipulation also doesn't fall under that umbrella. What's actually impressive is events where Force-users display their power or will immediately, since it can be translated to combat situations and compared with other characters.

”Newfound power” and “an even more unthinkable act” again pointing out that since the domination of the Force itself, Plagueis has only been going further, and growing more powerful, since then.

From the perspective of Darth Plagueis. 👇

So he tries to create life, immaculate conception of a Forceful being. Now, from what I can tell, it wasn’t Plagueis that created Anakin Skywalker, but rather the Force conceived Anakin Skywalker in response to Plagueis’ machinations, to return itself to balance. In other words, it created a living plot device, the most powerful Force user imaginable, to put an end to Plagueis’ domination of the Force. To once again bring Light into the galaxy and take back control from the Dark.

No, that's wrong. As per Palpatine, Anakin Skywalker's creation was a product of the months of deep meditation, not Darth Plagueis' meddling he did afterwards.

Plagueis blots out the Light Side almost completely, in other words the Jedi are nearly eradicated, but there is still a tiny sliver of light left - Luke Skywalker. And when the Dark Side was defeated, it’s domination over the Light Side lifted, the Light shone immensely. Which, I suppose, is another way of saying that, in the space of minutes, Sidious and Vader both died, leaving only the last Jedi left.

No he hasn't. Darth Maul remarked that the Force felt out-of-balance with the start of the Clone Wars, thus meaning it was seemingly in a state of balance prior. That being stated, again, the biased narrator is not a legitimate source for these absurd claims that "hur, Darth Plagueis cleansed the galaxy of the entire light side!" which is blatantly untrue.

So, really, some key points to establish:

- Midichlorian manipulation has nothing to do with Force power.

- Revan's feat is directly comparable with the unbalancing considering circumstances.

- The narrator of the Darth Plagueis novelization is not omniscient.

- Anakin Skywalker was a product of the duo's war, not Darth Plagueis' solo war.

- Vitiate never attempted to unbalance the Force in the first place.

- Anything is possible given enough time and concentration.

So, in my eyes, you're foaming out the mouth on something that's not impressive. Frankly, if I could list the top hundred most impressive Force feats in history, neither the unbalancing nor midichlorian manipulation makes the list. While I expect you, and anyone else associated with the blasphemous Darth Plagueis Brigade, to completely ignore what the author stated concerning midichlorian manipulation (i.e. that it has nothing to do with power), and likewise completely take everything the Darth Plagueis novel to heart without considering what side is being portrayed there (i.e. that of the Sith), don't expect me to not laugh over it. 😉

Months of energy... only twice the power of one of the people channeling....
Months of energy... only twice the power of one of the people channeling!!!

Originally posted by Trocity
Months of energy... only twice the power of one of the people channeling....
Months of energy... only twice the power of one of the people channeling!!!

👆

Well done my friend, as you establish the premise, I shall supply the killing blow.

I'm enjoying the era of Revan.

To add on, a lot of the hype surrounding the feat is the concept that "hey, these two Sith are directly in contest against the Force itself." The text makes it out to be some grandiose, unprecedented thing in which the will of the Force is actually being surpassed. Note, however, that this is coming from the perspective of Palpatine and Darth Plagueis. When recognizing what's actually going on, there doesn't seem to be much of a "battle of wills." It's stated that the Force isn't fighting back, and thus there was never truly a battle. I think a lot of this concept of "battle" was wrongfully assumed by Palpatine and Darth Plagueis out of arrogance and ignorance, especially considering the early stages of the meditation failed to yield results. In reality, I muse the months of deep meditation was merely the two stretching their dark influence and presence across the galaxy. So really, what's insane about this feat is that they thought of the ides in the first place, not that the actual application of it was ridiculous beyond what you would expect of two Vitiate+ Force-users, united a single entity, stretching their power out onto the unsuspecting galaxy without resistance for months.

Revan's really doing the same thing (i.e his power being stretched out across the galaxy, causing the Force to shift and change to a state of unbalance and turmoil), but the distinction is he's not spending months of deep meditation doing it, nor does he have another Revan to aid him. The extent at which the Force was affected is blatantly moreso for Darth Plagueis and Palpatine, but given the circumstances just stated, it's evident that if Revan would have meditated for the duration they did that similar results would have yielded. Thus, like ChaosTheory123 elaborated in his analysis of the energy output, it's a significantly underwhelming feat. All this talk of "waging a war with the Force" and this and that is greatly exaggerated when actually looked at from an impartial perspective (which the Darth Plagueis novel doesn't provide with the direct narration).

Damn, way to crush the opposition. The era of Revan draws near.

Savage Opress level feat.

Did you read his post? He just proved they aren't even close.

Thought one liners was KMC for trolling and no commitment to getting involved in a thread tbh *shrugs*

Because my impression of Wolf as a debater in general is a higher caliber than that in a scenario he's actually debating anyway *shrugs*

Well, this should be fun.

Spoiler:
Ant, you've actually yet to prove that a disturbance in the Force is the same as a sweeping cosmological imbalance.

LOL @ Revan dying and coming back to life but Krayt merely reaching the "brink of death".

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Spoiler:
Ant, you've actually yet to prove that a disturbance in the Force is the same as a sweeping cosmological imbalance.
In a nutshell.
Originally posted by SunRazer
LOL @ Revan dying and coming back to life but Krayt merely reaching the "brink of death".
This also came to mind for me. The implication was that Krayt conquered death.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ant, you've actually yet to prove that a disturbance in the Force is the same as a sweeping cosmological imbalance.

If something is disturbed, it's not in a state of balance. The entire concept of a Force disturbance is a temporary unbalancing, generally in a localized area. Some Force disturbances, such as the rise of Darth Maul or the destruction of Alderaan, is capable of stretching across the galaxy, but generally only in a flash. In the case of Revan, it started off as a seemingly localized, minimal threat, but nevertheless detectable to Force-sensitizes. Then it expanded until it was felt across the galaxy, affecting the current of the Force and possibly even the minds of its inhabitants. A prolonged, powerful, and constant Force disturbance is an unbalancing of the Force. That's the entire point.