Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Count Dooku (Sabers only)

Started by Kurk5 pages

It's no question that a very defensive form like Makashi or Soresu is going to be advantageous in an enclosed space against the likes of Juyo or Vaapad with its large sweeping arcs and power attacks.

Totally incorrect and logically so. Think about it.. In any medium.. sword fight, punches, whatever... It's never good to be in enclosed spaces with two people attacking. It's ALWAYS better to be able to move around freely and create space. You act like WITH space Soresu isn't effective. That is blatantly false. It's just as effective. What you're granted is more maneuvering and space. It doesn't make it harder for you to be defensive, it's easier.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Totally incorrect and logically so. Think about it.. In any medium.. sword fight, punches, whatever... It's never good to be in enclosed spaces with two people attacking. It's ALWAYS better to be able to move around freely and create space. You act like WITH space Soresu isn't effective. That is blatantly false. It's just as effective. What you're granted is more maneuvering and space. It doesn't make it harder for you to be defensive, it's easier.

I didn't say soresu isn't effective in open spaces. I said in enclosed areas a wild form like juyo is going to be at a disadvantage.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's stated that Vader couldn't penetrate Kenobi's defenses in ANH.

That's true, but it's from the same source that has ANH Vader as a mere shadow of his former self.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Not according to Canon.

The GI tells Kanan on their first encounter that he uses Form 3 to a ridiculous extent.. Or something along those lines.

And notice how well Kenobi's defenses held through that entire duel. His defenses were just as impressive as his offense.

What the GI said doesn't have anything to do with my point.

Obi-Wan was on the offensive for most of the fight.

Originally posted by SunRazer
That's true, but it's from the same source that has ANH Vader as a mere shadow of his former self.

Which is also true. 😬

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Which is also true. 😬

Obviously.

I assume the implication of your post was that Dooku wouldn't be able to penetrate Obi-Wan's defenses because Vader couldn't, which I disagree with. They have different fighting styles and Dooku's form is much better suited to picking apart Kenobi's defensive form than Vader's hammering blows.

Not that ANH Vader is on Dooku's level as a swordsman anyway.

My point was honestly just to jab Vader, tbh.

I don't see why ANH Vader wouldn't be near Dooku's level as a swordsman tbh. He's regained enough augmentative ability even as of 18 BBY to be faster than slightly post-ROTS Kenobi, on top of having a greater baseline physical strength. He's clearly regained quite a bit of his former command of the Force if he can pull off the monstrous TK feats that he does and has that physical augmentation, and not only does he have his past experience and skill to draw on (even if some of it isn't transferable) but he has had even more time than he had as Anakin to develop his technical skill with a blade. I can understand the people who think ANH Vader is lesser, but given the three things that make a person a good duelist and how he as Vader compares to Anakin, there should at least be some parity (not talking about Anakin when he kills the dragon or whatever).

You're citing augmentation, not skill. Vader's definitely a physical powerhouse at this point, but his overall fighting ability is quite diminished.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
There is zero notion that fighting two foes in an enclosed area is at all advantageous. It's ludicrous to even propose such a theory. Fight mimic fights, no matter the medium. Would you rather take on two guys in a dead end alley with no where to go.. or take them on in the middle of an open street with room to maneuver? The answer is quite clear. We see this all the time. No, it was not better for Kenobi in closed space, it was better for the Brothers.

It's confirmed in the new Canon that Soresu is designed for tight quarters.

Originally posted by SunRazer

Obi-Wan was on the offensive for most of the fight.

That doesn't mean he gives up his Soresu defences. The reason Obi-Wan performed so well in that fight wasn't because he initiated an unstoppable offensive. It was because during that whole offensive his defences were impenetrable (Aside from TK Attacks).

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That doesn't mean he gives up his Soresu defences. The reason Obi-Wan performed so well in that fight wasn't because he initiated an unstoppable offensive. It was because during that whole offensive his defences were impenetrable (Aside from TK Attacks).

I didn't say he gave up his Soresu defense. But citing that Soresu's efficiency in such a location was a major advantage is wrong because the novel makes it clear, IIRC, that the brothers were taken back by Obi-Wan's use of Ataru.

Obi-Wan isn't even a defensive fighter in TCW though.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Obi-Wan isn't even a defensive fighter in TCW though.

Wait... what?

He's been touting Obi-Wan's "aggressive fighting style" in TCW for a while now.

I never said aggresive Nova, apparently in your mind a fighter can only be aggresive or defensive.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Wait... what?

Based on all his fights in TCW he opts to just go toe-to-toe with his opponents rather then willfully going on a defense.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
I never said aggresive Nova, apparently in your mind a fighter can only be aggresive or defensive.

So... Obi-Wan has a passive aggressive fighting style? Sounds pretty bitchy to me tbh and nothing like Obi-Wan

Just look at that beard! Obi-Wan aint no *****

How does going toe-to-toe with someone preclude you from being defensive?

Because if he would fully employ Soresu then he would let the opponents come to him rather then meeting them head-on.